Recognition Questions

[Mickey Mouse]

Nobody told Guu she couldn't use Dataverse and DA as part of her recognition for the Tangled Green.

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You'll notice that while Guu listed DA amongst her accomplishments, she did not link to them as evidence are merely listed them as supplementary facts. More of an "Oh, and that too, if it counts." Her accomplishments in the Tangled Green were numerous and though once again I can't have the final word, I'm sure her posts weren't calculated into the final decision. Especially since she didn't directly link to them.

As for the Dataverse, Guu was requesting recognition for the Dataverse, not using those posts to achieve recognition in the Green.

You guys, if it helps you to justify it, reconsider your idea of what recognition means. It's a numerical bonus for becoming integral to the composition of a certain verse. It's almost as if you've reached "Site NPC" status. Think about the people who have already achieved it: the history of the Tangled Green would be dramatically different without Guu. The history of the Pale Moors would change without Shang Tsung or Proto Man.

This is why sagas such as DA don't count. Yes, the people of Whatever Verse might know who you are, but you've done nothing for them, good or bad, other than be good TV. You haven't made your mark in any way specifically on. Recognition isn't just about generic fame. It's about how your character fits into the specific verse you're trying to get recognition for. If someone was allowed to use events outside the verse to achieve that goal, it'd just be silly.

To further illustrate my point:
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You'll notice the word "fame" never comes up. It's about "influence," which is totally different.

[Schwi Dola]

Except that doesn't make any sense.

The verses aren't cut off from eachother. Two hours from the nexus gate. Events in Camelot are bound to be noticed by the Empire. The Omniverse's verses aren't worlds that haven't heard from one another in ages. They are cities you can travel to in very little time.

And it says fame. Right there.

Whether it's because of your heroism, your ruthlessness, or perhaps the mysterious intrigue that surrounds you, the more you do the more people say your name.

Gaining recognition in Camelot by only doing things in Camelot gets you recognition in the Empire. You become their enemy as you become Camelot's ally, you become known.

Eventually this hits a sort of tipping point where almost everyone in the verse knows who you are.

How is that NOT fame?

[Mickey Mouse]

Except that doesn't make any sense.

The verses aren't cut off from eachother. Two hours from the nexus gate. Events in Camelot are bound to be noticed by the Empire. The Omniverse's verses aren't worlds that haven't heard from one another in ages. They are cities you can travel to in very little time.

Cool. Nobody says you can't have people know who you are. They're saying you can't get rewards for your contributions to a verse if you haven't actually, ahem, made contributions to a verse.

And it says fame. Right there.

Whether it's because of your heroism, your ruthlessness, or perhaps the mysterious intrigue that surrounds you, the more you do the more people say your name.

That sentence does not say fame.

Gaining recognition in Camelot by only doing things in Camelot gets you recognition in the Empire. You become their enemy as you become Camelot's ally, you become known.

See, here though, you're making a big assumption that Recognition in Camelot means you're an ally of the Kingdom when that simply isn't the case. You could be an Empire Spy stationed in Camelot for years and the verse comes to know you as "the Executioner" because of your litany of assassinations of high profile Kingdom political figures. That's Recognition in Camelot, but not influence in a faction. You're confusing faction influence with Recognition.

Eventually this hits a sort of tipping point where almost everyone in the verse knows who you are.

How is that NOT fame?

Because the description says recognition is based on influence. That word is used very deliberately.

[Schwi Dola]

And its described as fame.

fame
fām/
noun
noun: fame

the condition of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements.
"winning the Olympic title has brought her fame and fortune"
synonyms: renown, celebrity, stardom, popularity, prominence; More
note, distinction, esteem, importance, account, consequence, greatness, eminence, prestige, stature, repute;
notoriety, infamy
"a designer of international fame"
antonyms: obscurity

Influence drives the recognition in multiple verses from one verse's actions. People with influence are people the Empire and Camelot want to know about. If you have actual influence in Camelot, the Empire would surely know about it and vice versa creating recognition in both verses.

[Mickey Mouse]

And its described as fame.

fame
fām/
noun
noun: fame

the condition of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements.
"winning the Olympic title has brought her fame and fortune"
synonyms: renown, celebrity, stardom, popularity, prominence; More
note, distinction, esteem, importance, account, consequence, greatness, eminence, prestige, stature, repute;
notoriety, infamy
"a designer of international fame"
antonyms: obscurity

Influence drives the recognition in multiple verses from one verse's actions. People with influence are people the Empire and Camelot want to know about. If you have actual influence in Camelot, the Empire would surely know about it and vice versa creating recognition in both verses.

You're certainly welcome to roleplay it that way, but you're unfortunately still confusing faction influence with verse recognition.

Empire =/= Coruscant
Kingdom =/= Camelot

(Also, to be honest I'm not really sure why you're arguing about this:

This is only granted for the first verse in which you achieve recognition

Even if you could use actions in Camelot to gain recognition in Coruscant, there's no extra bonus for it.)

[Proto Man]

'Recognition' for the purpose of this game system translates into actions done in a given verse. That's straight from the main man's desk.

You guys are free to discuss semantics of word choice, but as it stands, events like Dante's Abyss certainly make you more famous in the IC game world. As it stands currently, that does not translate into the OOC game element you're discussing ('Recognition'). You are all celebrities in the game world. I apologize that this does not translate into more free OM for your characters.

You guys are free to continue your discussion as you wish, but if this starts becoming salty (as these threads often do), I will lock this thread without a second-thought.

[Schwi Dola]

The point is actions in other verses can have influence in verses besides the one you do them in.

Your assassinations for the Empire in Camelot could get you known as a Hero who seeks out and destroys criminals outside the Empire. Giving you recognition in Coruscant.

Hey its that guy that won Dante's Abyss, that event that was broadcast throughout the Omniverse. We know he can be pretty good.

Is that by itself gaining universal recognition? Of course not. Is it going to influence and open doors for Sauske? Of course. Fame is influence of its own.

An argument for only actions in a particular verse counting because you become famous in that universe locally is just as much for DA affecting them.

The graveyard wouldn't count for anything because it is an obscure event. The Camelot tournament doesn't really affect noterity outside Camelot because it was a local event. DA was omniversal.

DA was in every universe, it was broadcast to them all.

[Mickey Mouse]

The point is actions in other verses can have influence in verses besides the one you do them in.

Your assassinations for the Empire in Camelot could get you known as a Hero who seeks out and destroys criminals outside the Empire. Giving you recognition in Coruscant.

Hey its that guy that won Dante's Abyss, that event that was broadcast throughout the Omniverse. We know he can be pretty good.

Is that by itself gaining universal recognition? Of course not. Is it going to influence and open doors for Sauske? Of course. Fame is influence of its own.

An argument for only actions in a particular verse counting because you become famous in that universe locally is just as much for DA affecting them.

The graveyard wouldn't count for anything because it is an obscure event. The Camelot tournament doesn't really affect noterity outside Camelot because it was a local event. DA was omniversal.

DA was in every universe, it was broadcast to them all.

That's great. Roleplay it that way. No one is saying you can't.

Just know that doesn't translate to capital-R Recognition or any OOC OM rewards of any kind.

[Dark Link]

I think it's a mistake to equate 'influence' with 'fame'. There are many cases where individuals ended up having significant impact or wielded a great amount of power, but who (at least at the time) remained unknown to the general public. For example, if the character is a secret operative (who's abductions, assassinations and sabotage tipped the scales of power), an adviser/spouse/concubine to a political figure (who's words and deeds influenced that figure's decisions) or a scientist/engineer working for a big corporation (who's work ended up contributing to the corporation's fortunes), they may end up making a big difference without many people knowing of their actions. While a group of people will recognise their influence, that may not necessarily be a large group.

Also, while the verses may not be far away from one another, some of those verses are quite vast places where the far reaches may be hundreds of miles away from the portal leading to the Nexus. Furthermore, just because the verses are in close proximity to one another doesn't mean that information flows freely or that the citizens of various verses tend to visit other verses a whole lot. So someone famous in one verse may not necessarily be famous in all verses.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

All I am saying is, if Camelot's tournament counts, then so should DA's. In fact, my argument is more that, Camelot's tournament shouldn't count, not that DA's should. Nothing more than fame should have been earned for Camelot's tournament, just like DA. Because they are virtually the same. A competition that all the IC verses knew about. Neither should count.

BUT... if one of them does count towards the goal, then they both should.

Edit: They were just competitions and what occurred within them had no actual influence on any of the verses.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

If the problem is giving that much recognition for each verse off one event, and that is what you want to avoid, couldn't we just divide the word count by the number of verses? If Camelot's tournament counts, then it would only make sense that you would achieve the same with any other publicly known tournament. Just divide the rec across the number of verses. So when I apply for whatever verse, I get a small portion of recognition from DA, not my full word count of effort. Does this make sense?

[Smith]

The Coliseum DID have an effect on Camelot, in the same way that the Olympics benefit the country that hosts them that year. A big event brings in tourists. Tourists bring in revenue. The local economy flourishes and everyone benefits. Camelot held a spectacle and as a result it benefited from the attention garnered from it.

The problem with DA is, the only person who's economy benefited from it was Karl Jak (and Ron's liquor cabinet). So, maybe you could ask for Recognition with him, but with any other Verse. They got to see a spectacle, but they didn't reap any benefits from it, kinda like watching the Superbowl on T.V.

That's why doing things for the Pale Moors doesn't equate to getting Recognition in Camelot (insert any two Verses you like here). You helped Darkshire out, and I'm sure the people of Camelot KNOW about it. But your actions didn't do anything for them in particular. So why would they feel obligated to give you some extra OM?

In short, the Coliseum helped improve Camelot's image, as well as bringing in new revenue to the Verse. It's not far-fetched to think that they might consider the contestants to be entitled to a share of the new wealth. DA was Jak's baby, and the only person who would think the contestants deserve a little extra OM for it would be him. AND he already GAVE everyone some OM for their troubles.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

Ummm... Bars all across the country benefit from the super bowl. They make tons of revenue and it stimulates the economy across the board. Not to mention all the merchandise that gets sold for the event (DA even had its own merchandise that was being sold, just like the superbowl) So, it's not just the price for stadium seats. What you are arguing for Camelot, could easily be argued for DA, on a slightly smaller scale for each verse. =/

Edit: Also, your comment about the bonusOM for participating... Camelot did that as well. Like seriously, If a tournament can ever give you recognition, than any tournament should be able to, so long as it was done publicly.

[Smith]

The merchandise sold for DA benefited Karl Jak, if it was sanctioned, and criminal elements if it was not.

The bar analogy is an example of incidental profit. The Superbowl being shown in the bars is a gimmick used by the barkeeps to improve sales. I'm sure some places in the OV showed the event and profited from it, but not on a margin that would equate to Recognition being awarded to any of the participants.

When an event is held in a specific place, that place gets a significant improvement to the economy, not simply an incidental one from showing the event in a public venue. In the OV sense, not only has tourism benefited the area, but Omni's attention as well as increased the amount of OM available in the area. And the influx of Primes. All of these things occurred in Camelot during the Coliseum. All of these things occurred in DA during the event there. But they didn't bleed out of those Verses to effect others.

Of course, all of this is just me putting a realistic spin on this. In a game sense, all the DA participants already received a "Recognition Bonus" for their participation, in the OM prize, the Extra Participation Bonus, and Artifacts for the winners. The value of those were outstanding and more than surpass what would equate to an infinitesimal bump in what is needed to achieve the requirements for Recognition in a Verse. In short, DA already paid out more than its fair share of rewards to the participants.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

I mean, that was kind of the nail in the coffin, and what you all should have said in the first place, instead of trying to make Camelot's tournament out to be some kind of great advancement to Camelot's worth. I couldn't see the difference between two public tournaments, or how one was more beneficial to a verse's economy.

If it is a straight OOC call in that, "Hey, this saga already gave too much OOC bonus, that's why." That makes sense to me vs. the DA wasn't worth shit to any verse argument. Cool cool, thank you.

Edit: Sorry for being difficult

[Minato Namikaze]

In terms of getting the actual participation bonus, you work towards gaining influence in a single verse. So if the bulk of your writing was in the dunes, and Sasuke was currently in the dunes, still doing things there, then that would be your best bet. Do enough in the Dunes to the point where you think you might be eligible for getting the Recognition Bonus, etc.

However, you cannot include any other writing, from any other Verses when applying for said bonus. It is only your actions within a single verse. So DA would not give you anything towards gaining the Recognition Bonus in that sense. Similarly, the Camelot tournament wouldn't count towards someone's Recognition unless they were applying for Recognition within Camelot.

[Retane]

However, you cannot include any other writing, from any other Verses when applying for said bonus. It is only your actions within a single verse.

Oh? And what if the ninja village asked me to go to 'x' verse and assassinate them? Would that not count towards Tangled Greens/Ninja Village?

Bounties would fall under the same category. If I killed someone for a certain faction, would that count for said verse/Faction towards recognition of the verse the faction was in, even though I killed said person in a different verse?

[Minato Namikaze]

I stand by what I said, any writing that you are using to gain the recognition bonus for a verse, must come from that verse.

[Schwi Dola]

But the reasoning you give that are IC reasons don't pan out and make no IC sense, which is a requirement for IC reasons.

OOC reasons don't need to make ic sense

[Minato Namikaze]

If you are working towards getting a recognition Bonus, then all of the writing that you want to put forward to get said recognition bonus, must be within one Verse.

If I wanted to apply for recognition with Edward for camelot, then I couldn't also take the posts I've done with him in the vasty deep and use them to get the bonus, even though it is a quest for someone who is in Camelot.

In character wise, I don't really care who knows you as long as it would make sense. If you want people to recognize your character because they competed in Dante's Abyss, then sure. But OOC wise, when going for the bonus, all of the writing you put forward must be in the same verse, not spread over multiple verses.