Refining sword-style moves

[Oleander]

Let's start simple. After DA I plan to do a lot of work on Takezo's moveset, considering he will have very few powers to rely on in the long run.

Iaido: First Strike: This will be shortened to JUST "First Strike." Iaido is a modernized form of Iai no jutsu, or Iaijutsu, and I feel like the word is just bad flavor? That aspect doesn't matter, but I'm heavily considering just turning this into Takezo's Super Move, prolly the only one for a while.

Katana This will end up becoming more "flavor" than anything, due to breaking it up into techniques by which it would most commonly be used.

Shallow Cut: This does low Burst damage, but high Bleed damage and is what "Katana" was originally supposed to be. Flavor text has it based off of a chinese form of torture and execution called Lingchi "Death by a thousand cuts." It will favor the use of one hand instead of two, thus reducing strength as a caveat of the move. Low initial damage, but the bleed damage will stack. Flavor-wise, it'll be a very sadistic move.

Shallow Cut: This sword technique was popularized by far-traveled Samurai who witnessed the act of Lingchi. Lingchi translates to "Death by a Thousand Cuts." It was used as a form of torture and execution in China. Shallow Cut is a technique based off of Lingchi that uses shallow cuts to inflict a few seconds of bleed damage. However, it avoids major arteries and the use of excessive strength. The lighter blows means faster strikes, which allowed the swordsman to land more cuts on their target. The lack of strength for this attack allows Takezo to easily use one hand to deal the appropriate amount of damage.

Deep Cut: This is the two-handed variant focusing heavily on burst damage with very minor bleed damage. This uses mostly all of his strength and as such tends to be a bit slow. Blocking is generally not a good idea if at all possible.

Deep Cut: Samurai often focus on slower, but more powerful strikes to decide a battle in as few strokes as possible. The high precision attacks were not at a Samurai's full speed, but they were considerably more deadly than flailing one's sword about and often overwhelmed the unwitting foe that attempted to block instead of evade. Deep Cut requires two hands and proper form, making it rather rigid and hard to evade, but if it lands a victim with Defense 2 lower than Takezo's attack not only takes heavy damage, but is forced in the direction of the blow; left, right, down or even thrown upwards with the force of the cut.

Cutting Defense: A technique used to deal with ranged attacks, it uses quick, light force attacks to literally cut through most slow to medium paced projectiles, depending on Takezo's current speed. So far, I'm trying to decide on wording the actual flavor for it.

Daisho: This is another umbrella term (Read as "Fodder Move.") The use of a secondary sword, smaller than the main hand, is what Takezo's RL and Manga version are famous for. So, I'm considering adding a second sword to use when he uses Shallow Cuts, and subsequently a few moves for the offhand short sword.

Defensive Cut: Using his offhand wakazashi defensively, Takezo is capable of simultainiously attack and defend. Granted, this could only be used for Shallow Cuts, and usually has the off-hand acting more like a shield than an actual sword.

Thrown Sword: Perhaps his only ranged move in the short term, he throws his short sword to devastating effect.

I've given up Japanese naming, since... well... I don't speak a lick of the language.

Note: Thanks to Cell for pointing out the flaw in the original, it inspired me to take the time to research and rewrite a much better flavor text and accurate description, and really think about direction. Admittedly, the original move was kinda thrown together hastily for DA.


The reason for the topic (finally) is to ask for a bit of advice. Have I missed any obvious moves? I don't have many for defense, or for ranged. Flavor-wise, would it make sense for Takezo to have anything outside of swords? Historically, he is not depicted as having a bow or crossbow or anything of the sort. Then again, I'm sort of taking liberties as it is, giving him such a varied/specific moveset that's somewhere between fact and fiction.

If it helps, I plan to do a Hell arc, where he is banished and forced to fight in the Arena, before earning an audience with Diablo. So adding more "hellish" moves for later down the road is totally fine, or perhaps statements to justify powers outside of what is normally expected.

[Oleander]

Fun thought, forgot to add it in...

I might have Takezo somehow receive the Cursed Sword of Muramasa (Katana) perhaps somewhere in Hell to use as his primary hand and a Blessed Sword of Masamune for his defensive hand.

I'm of course referring to the mythical legend of the pupil (Muramasa) challenging his master (Masamune) and the description of the swords. Which is of course impossible historically due to the 300 year difference.

Also not sure where he'd find Masamune as a secondary, and I donno if I want to "summon" him just for a sword. I've searched, but can't seem to find either as NPC's yet. Would they be considered off limits, even as more myths than history?

[Tearen Wover]

You don't need specific moves to know how to use your weapons. This is the one place where sweeping, blanket generalizations are to your benefit.

Example: Kopaka has a sword and shield. I don't need to give him a specific move to bash with a shield and stab through the parry. That's just basic swordplay.

Moves are for things that don't NORMALLY fall under your trained technique, such as your sword-throw move.

[Oleander]

I figured since the 2H Power over Speed was so different mechanically than the 1H DoT/Speed over Power I'd require Variants (which is the same as different moves in this case.) If they are just fodder moves, that would mean that Takezo effectively has all melee-assault moves for a seriously low price, and I find that a bit overpowered, considering other people have like 1k+ OM sank into various different close-quarter type moves with various effects.

[King Ghidorah]

Okay. Having actually read over the thread instead of just widdling into the chatbox like an overexcited puppy, here's my two cents (though you should bear in mind I'm not staff, I'm just a guy who thinks he's pretty good at moves).

Shallow Cut and Deep Cut should probably be variants under the Katana move, because they are, in fact, quite different mechanically - but ultimately two very broad categories for how the weapon is being used. Defensive cut however, is covered by just having high enough TEC to cut something out of the air. If you were trying to reflect a projectile back at the user, you'd need a move, but just cutting stuff out of the air you can do with only the right stats. Honestly, you could probably shoehorn the Daisho in under the katana description as well considering the weapons are kind of a set.

[Oleander]

Since Variations are the same price as extra moves, I'd like to keep Katana as a "fodder" type and build techniques from there. I have a massive list of other techniques that would eventually make Katana over 5k with a HUGE list of various types of attacks. For example, the Achilles Cut... First Strike is also a Katana "variant" since it uses the sword. That's four variants to a single "move" that would get very long winded, very fast.

Daisho is in itself another long ass list if I decided to "shoehorn" it in anywhere, because the offhand comes with yet another long list of moves. Defensive deflection (back at target, as you said) is just one of at least three I can think of. Some of them combine with the Katana to create other variants. It may not LOOK it, but a lot of the things I have planned are as different from a Ki Blast, to the Kamehamehawhatsit to Gatling Guu.

If I need an example, I could try to write what "Katana" would look like if I included Daisho, Deep Cut, Shallow Cut, First Strike, Thrown Sword and for the moment exclude any later editions. Just as it sits, that's 1500 OM for one "move" and a LOT of explaining, considering each has its own outcome. Three of which are Debuff based, meaning they will require extra attention.

[Jade Harley]

The Katana couldn't really be fodder/flavor/whatever. If your character has a physical weapon it costs OM! It's okay to have specific moves that use the katana, that just makes those moves more powerful (like a charged attack that utilizes the katana), but the katana will have to be purchased individually.

[Oleander]

Alright, after having a breakdown trying to figure out why my move was being skipped in the Approval thread and why no one understood what was going on, I asked in chat (because I felt no one was going to try and help me figure it out much more than "hey, that's wrong, they're the same thing.) I figured out everyone was focusing heavily on the number of hands, or the "Style" of fighting.

Deep Cut/Shallow Cut is literally a "Hit A for Heavy Attack, hit B for Light Attack" scenerio. People kept focusing on the hands, that was meant as fodder for Daisho later on.

Deep Cuts is a Heavy Attack. Ignore the two handed nature, it's just a heavy attack.

• Slower, easier to evade.
  
• Blocking yields a knockback effect.
  
• Higher burst damage on impact.
  
• Disorients targets with a defense of 2 less than Shinmen.
  
• Shinmen is more open to counter attacks.
  
• Slightly more tiring.
  

Shallow Cuts is a Light Attack. Ignore the one handed nature, it's just a light attack.

• Higher speed, harder to evade.
  
• Does nothing if blocked.
  
• Damage is dealt over time as Bleed Damage.
  
• Less overall damage than Deep Cuts.
  
• Slightly lowers Defense of target.
  
• Not very tiring at all.
  

The number of hands required for each is muted, it was a Fodder mechhanic to introduce Daisho later. It's gone now. The two different techniques are vastly different when broken down this far, but when writing they would appear to a skilled fighter a far cry from the same thing.

There is no doubt in my mind that these are far enough from the same thing that I'll pay 600 OM, the question is, would it be a move with variants, or two moves?

[Tearen Wover]

Two moves.

This all starts to get waaayyyy into the meta of how moves are constructed on this site, but suffice to say, this would be two separate moves both using the katana move you already paid for.

Your existing katana servers as a sort of blanket, filling in all the little gaps of swordsmanship and swordplay so you don't have to buy a move for each parry or strike. Once you purchase that, you can purchase other moves that use the katana sort of as a 'focus', which could technically be interpreted as a drawback. It's a little wibbly wobbly.

[Dane Regan]

As Tearen said. But you should also consider:

For Deep Cuts:
How much knockback?
For the disorientation, I think you mean it disorientates targets with a DEF 2 or more lower than Shin's ATK.
How long does the disorientation last?
Is it refreshed or added to in duration if you attack a disorientated target?
What specifically does the disorientation do? Slow the target down? Make their attacks inaccurate? Make it harder for them to dodge?

For Shallow Cuts:
How long does the bleed effect last?
If it added to or refreshed if you attack a bleeding target?

You should also include some general description of how he fights with the two styles (if it varies from your default katana move) as people will need to describe you.

[Oleander]

Another way to word it is that "Katana" uses "Shallow Cuts" as a basis, as was initially intended, and "Deep Cuts" becomes a derived move, for the simplicity of how the system works. Deep Cuts can be used pretty often, but is rarely used back to back. It's a guard breaker, now that I've come to break it down.

[Dane Regan]

To do that you'd need to bring your Katana move to the approval and upgrade it to what you wrote for Shallow Cuts. As long as they're fairly similar (and it's an upgrade, not a complete rehaul) you'll be fine with it. Otherwise you'd need to still pay for it in full again.