Ki and Force mechanics

[Violet]

Not sure if this should go here, but I'd like to get some thoughts and theories on ki (which is commonly associated with the Dragonball universe, where my character was taken from) and Force (which is associated with Star Wars universe, and I imagine, common for some folks in Coruscant.

I am almost certain that the two are the same, if not quite closely related. As Vad had pointed out in our facebook convo, the force is not a visual manifestation like ki has the ability to be. However, aren't lightsabers powered by Force?

I would like to use both (discovering Force while adventuring on Coruscant) eventually, but the question is, should it (force power) be treated as a completely separate thing than ki, or would it be the same? Or, should it be a similar manifestation of energy, like a sister mechanic, that would be quicker to pick up on since my character uses one?

I look forward to your thoughts on this matter. Anyone is welcome to participate in this discussion.

[Trixie]

However, aren't lightsabers powered by Force? .

Not the lightsabers that everyone is accustomed to seeing in the movies or even in the era of the original movies. About 100,000 years before A New Hope the Rakatan Empire had what are called Force Sabers that were constructed similarly, but using two black crystals that they grew the saber would draw directly from the ambient dark side energy in it's wielder and focus it into a blade. The modern light sabers are highly focused beams of light that are channeled through a force crystal that is either grown or harvested from a cave strong in the force. The modern sabers have a hilt, lens, battery pack, crystal, etc etc inside of them.

[Ganondorf]

Lightsabers have a battery, actually, though many have an on/off switch that can be manipulated by the Force. The Force, as I see it, is more like a psychic ability. Seeing the future, reading and manipulating minds, moving stuff. Ki is the energy of your body. And while they can do similar things, I think there's a difference between them.

In Omniverse rule-stuffs, however, they're pretty much the same thing, because both are purchased via Omnilium and have similar 'game' mechanics.

Regardless, how YOUR character views them is up to you, and how you handle it is the same.

[Violet]

I could see telekinesis playing a role in manipulating force mechanics, would that be safe to assume?

[Ganondorf]

You would be safe to assume that, yes. As I told Vad, many Force abilities (such as Force Push and even Force Choke) would likely require Telekinesis to perform. Things such as Force Lightning probably wouldn't.

[Trixie]

Mechanically speaking the force can accomplish a lot of the things Ki can, but Ganon is right. Ki comes from you where the force is manifested from around you. So even if you ran out of energy you'd still have the force at your disposal. It could be an interesting route to see them work side by side intrinsically.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

You would be safe to assume that, yes. As I told Vad, many Force abilities (such as Force Push and even Force Choke) would likely require Telekinesis to perform. Things such as Force Lightning probably wouldn't.

Why do we even have telekinesis? I didn't need to purchase Electrokinesis in order to use my Chidori, so why is it not the same for Telekinesis? Just curious.

[Neal]

Telekinesis is a Power, while Chidori is a direct move. It's a hierarchy, with Proficiencies being at the top. Electrokinesis is not a power. (though Elemental should be, in my oppinion.) Telekinesis has a lot more uses than Electrokinesis, and can be explained in far more variations, while at its root remaining simple. And then there's the balance of power. Chidori is one move, which you pay for directly. Telekinesis is broad and can be used in many ways. As a move, it's utility variation costs alone would make it impossible to purchase.

To word it better, Telekinesis is a "Power" and Moves are ways to focus it. "Force" and "Ki" that use TK are more RP Fodder. Chidori is basically a physical attack, given strength at the cost of repetition (Canon version, at least.) Electrokinesis does not exist as a power because it is limited to simply one element. Elemental as a power would make more sense.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

Telekinesis is a Power, while Chidori is a direct move. It's a hierarchy, with Proficiencies being at the top. Electrokinesis is not a power. (though Elemental should be, in my oppinion.) Telekinesis has a lot more uses than Electrokinesis, and can be explained in far more variations, while at its root remaining simple. And then there's the balance of power. Chidori is one move, which you pay for directly. Telekinesis is broad and can be used in many ways. As a move, it's utility variation costs alone would make it impossible to purchase.

To word it better, Telekinesis is a "Power" and Moves are ways to focus it. "Force" and "Ki" that use TK are more RP Fodder. Chidori is basically a physical attack, given strength at the cost of repetition (Canon version, at least.) Electrokinesis does not exist as a power because it is limited to simply one element. Elemental as a power would make more sense.

Thanks Neal, but I know the difference between moves, powers, and proficiencies. What I am getting at is that, why is it we need to spend more on a prerequisite for a move like Force Push, when we don't for moves like Fireballs, Lightning strikes, Bubblebeams, etc.

I could see how adding elemental as a power would balance it, however, they had elemental powers here before and removed them, so it seems to me that we should just remove telekinesis as a prerequisite all together, no?

[Kenpachi Zaraki]

I kinda see this as similar to needing Ranged proficiency for guns and stuff. Telekinesis has a lot of applications beyond direct attacks and I think that's why a pre-req is needed.

Just my thoughts.

[Trixie]

I kinda see this as similar to needing Ranged proficiency for guns and stuff. Telekinesis has a lot of applications beyond direct attacks and I think that's why a pre-req is needed.

Just my thoughts.

This is exactly why.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

The same thing could be said in regards to anyone of the other elements tho. If we have the current prereq just for its utility purposes like bringing things to you or moving things out of the way from afar....

Well, that's likewise for say, Electrokinesis for example, there are tons of utility things I could do with the power. I guess what I am saying is that I feel like electrokinesis is just as OP as telekinesis and that if you need to have a prereq, I prolly should too. I could just as easily start creating a ton of diverse and utility style uses for electrokinesis.

Like using static electricity to stick to things or using it to reroute a nervous system signal to move your left arm instead of your intended right arm.

Heck, Static Shock used Electrokinesis to fly, the same way Jean Grey used telekinesis to fly...

[Trixie]

The same thing could be said in regards to anyone of the other elements tho. If we have the current prereq just for its utility purposes like bringing things to you or moving things out of the way from afar....

Well, that's likewise for say, Electrokinesis for example, there are tons of utility things I could do with the power. I guess what I am saying is that I feel like electrokinesis is just as OP as telekinesis and that if you need to have a prereq, I prolly should too. I could just as easily start creating a ton of diverse and utility style uses for electrokinesis.

Like using static electricity to stick to things or using it to reroute a nervous system signal to move your left arm instead of your intended right arm.

Heck, Static Shock used Electrokinesis to fly, the same way Jean Grey used telekinesis to fly...

The problem is you're talking about only a small portion of abilities. Elements and Lightning. Telekinesis is the foundation for a multitude of things across multitudes of different universes and character types. As Neal said it's the simple form for which a basis can be established.

Similar to needing Ki Control for ANY advanced Ki based attacks on Chubbs.

[Neal]

Flight has its own Power, but at that point the Electrokinesis becomes RP Fodder. Technically, you could use the Force to "Fly" without needing TK. Telekinesis, however, has a lot of uses outside of battle that don't require moves. You suggest sticking to things, with TK you could activate a lever on the other side of an iron bar gate, or mimick any of the Elemental-kinesis you so desire simply by using TK. Electrokinesis, theoretically, is a form of telekinesis by way of mentally moving electrons.

Technically, you could argue any elemental requires TK of an element moves beyond the physical body.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

I disagree, I couldn't find that many more uses for telekinesis that aren't attacks than I could find for Electrokinesis.

My argument isn't that we should get rid of telekinesis. My argument is that the balance is off. It's not fair that I get electricity and all it's uses without a prereq, when you don't for telekinesis.

Like honestly, my argument is that I should have had to pay more. I can do just as much, if not more with my element than you can with Telekinesis.

Edit for Neal: Nah, I wouldn't need telekinesis to stick to the walls. Telekinesis has nothing to do with that, but Electrokinesis has everything to do with that. I'd be a little irritated if they told me a I needed to have Telekinesis to stick to walls... That doesn't even make sense, lol.

[Trixie]

Can you decipher why kids love cinnamon toast crunch!?

[Sasuke Uchiha]

What do think the sparkle in a 'cinnamon sparkle' is? Electrons. Ya dig? =P

[Neal]

I think Elemental should be added, but specific elements would be, well, too specific. And repetitive.

As for non-attack uses, I can name a plethura:
Shielding, for example. Electricity has no mass, meaning it can't physically block anything. Same with fire, neither possess true force. Electricity actually tends to pass THROUGH an object.

Then there's picking things up from across the room, without shocking them. Sure, Electromagnatism, but you can't pick up a glass or, again, rubber.

How about mentally molding clay? Art wise, you could theoretically achieve better accurasy with TK than your hands, and electricity would just ground out.

Just saying, TK by itself is great RP fodder. An overarching Elemental power would easily match it though, but not Electrokinesis alone. I still agree with your case, however, just offering a counterbalance to the arguement. ^_^

[Sasuke Uchiha]

I think Elemental should be added, but specific elements would be, well, too specific. And repetitive.

As for non-attack uses, I can name a plethura:
Shielding, for example. Electricity has no mass, meaning it can't physically block anything. Same with fire, neither possess true force. Electricity actually tends to pass THROUGH an object.

Then there's picking things up from across the room, without shocking them. Sure, Electromagnatism, but you can't pick up a glass or, again, rubber.

How about mentally molding clay? Art wise, you could theoretically achieve better accurasy with TK than your hands, and electricity would just ground out.

Just saying, TK by itself is great RP fodder. An overarching Elemental power would easily match it though, but not Electrokinesis alone. I still agree with your case, however, just offering a counterbalance to the arguement. ^_^

I could create an electromagnetic shield with Electricity that would allow me to block and deflect things with Electrokinesis.... It would work on the polar opposites aspect of electrokinesis. This is seen and done in many fiction works. I'd only need the shield area prof...

For the most part you are right tho, fire couldn't and doesn't have near the flexibility as electrokinesis, but electricity man.... it can do alot... I'd say as much as telekinesis...

So to conclude, I feel like we should either remove telekinesis as a prereq to moves or(And more likely) implement a catch all for elemental moves, instead of the previous prereq per element.

Edit: Just not until after DA. I need all my OM and can't afford for this to take effect right now. *Stomps own foot for snitching on one's self* >.>

[Neal]

A wall of electrons at high density would more incenerate anything that came in contact with it, which means it's a "hostile" shield. Telekinesis can create a safe one... But back on the topic of prerequisits, perhaps we should start a petition to have "Elemental" added as a power?