Artefact Quest: Tarrasqing a Question Discussion

[Proto Man]

I put Proto Man into the role of distraction, and I dragged Atelos/Hades along for the ride.

This is one of those times where I'm a'okay with part of the next post running concurrent with my own post, as that makes complete sense story-wise.

Second round a-go-go.

[Schwi Dola]

Quest Reward – Tarrasque Armament Artefact – An artefact that comes from a piece of the slain Tarrasque which may be stylised into whatever the initial reciever desires. The player who finds it chooses a single stat that the artefact will increase - this then becomes the artefact's permanent form.

If you don't kill the Tarrasque and harvest what you need from its Corpse, I would assume you've failed the quest.

[Sarah_Kerrigan]

As per Proto's instruction, the topic Primordial Weapon will only be considered in the judgement as to whether or not you all may continue to write and 'slay' the beast to obtain the Artefact in question. Afterwards, whether you want to fight over who gets it, is up to EVERYONE involved. I will be judging any fallout (that battle) as well.

An additional ruling regarding Dio's latest post will also be posted. Until you see my next post, this topic is frozen. It will be up by the morning, so don't fret...

[Sarah_Kerrigan]

First off before I get into the more nity gritty and the reality of the situation here: I want to say I enjoyed the battle thus far between the Primes and the Primordial Weapon immensely. Where I usually frown upon repetition of material i. e. telling the story from every character’s perspective. In this instance, it meshed so so well. I will also say I haven’t been keeping up with the thread as I wanted to keep my opinion untainted as it progressed, so this is my first time going through everything.

Now, let me explain why I believe that.

Actually the reason is simple: your foe is the size of a building. This isn’t something to be tossed away as a plot point, but used in the narrative as almost an excuse to get everyone involved in a massive fight for their lives. And, in that respect I absolutely loved how everyone had a role to play. That is what made it believable. The changing perspectives, the desperation (in most cases), and each and every one of you playing some part in trying to bring this creature down.

The word count obviously isn’t an issue as this thread already far exceeds the 10,000 word requirement, so that doesn’t even play a part in my subsequent decision. The ruling below is a simple one and hopefully will still give you enough room to finish off the Quest portion of this endeavor in a way that is agreeable to all participants - not just Dio and Whirda.

In my opinion, you all have done a good enough job to warrant the death of the Tarrasque and in that case you (now) do have my approval to do so in the next few posts. However, I need to address the matter of Dio’s latest post as was relayed to me via pm by Protoman. Now regardless of whether or not he actually had good intentions, what occurred in the final half of his post is retconned (everything including when the Tarrasque loses its head so right when Dio shouts activate the detonators) and will be deleted shortly after I finish typing out this response. Additionally, the post order now passes on to whomever was next after him; I believe Proto said it was Whirda, but I’m not 100% certain on that.

With that said I absolutely need to make the points that Protoman pointed out to me clear so this following judgement is proper:

First, Dio you only spoke to Whirda about how this (your subsequent post) would proceed. There are 8 or so people in the thread. That is not okay end of discussion. Not in such a situation that is not simply collaborative writing, but one that is essentially a competitive cooperation. You cannot make it appear that you are setting yourself up so that you can game things in your favor. Whether that was your intent or not that is how Protoman took it (because he wasn’t informed) and since you didn’t discuss it with him (a participant of this storyline), it is by no means something that is allowed. This isn’t a group story where you can throw a curve-ball without informing everyone involved. This is a competition. They need to have informed consent.

Secondly, there has been previous Artefact Quests before this one - several in fact. You should know by now that you cannot write yourself obtaining the ‘Artefact’ - in any form - without the approval of the Judge that will be going over your Quest. Which in this case is me.
Next, while in this case you can tailor the Artefact to a specific look and function, you still have no idea how it initially presents itself. That is part of the approval process I mentioned, but still needed to be highlighted. For all you know it’s a energy that must first be smithed and tailored to you by an appropriate blacksmith.

Lastly, given the points illustrated above Protoman has asked me to determine an appropriate penalty for this gross miscommunication. He believes Dio should only receive 50% of the participation bonus for the threads involving this quest, and I agree that in this instance, that is fair. Personally, I would have revoked it entirely as I don’t think this behavior is okay in any form. I don’t care if it was a simple mistake, there is no excuse for not communicating to your writing partners about what is to happen. It is necessary so misinterpretations like this do not occur.

With that settled (and I mean it is settled I don’t want to hear one word further about this matter as it is closed), there are a few more things I would like to point that will occur at the end of this Quest.

The first of which is Damage. Yes in some form or another all your characters will be distributed damage for the upcoming ‘battle’ over this Artefact in question. I will post up the accumulated damage AFTER the conclusion of the current thread. So, someone will need to let me know when the monster has bit the dust and the actual quest portion of this task is officially completed. Now those of you with Regenerative abilities, you may spend SP points to heal these injuries before the next portion of this storyline begins.

How you decide who is fighting who is entirely up to you, but only ONE of you may walk away with the Artefact in the end. You can make accords and all that and team up against one another. However, at the end of the day someone is going to die (unless the victors choose not to kill). And, that brings me to my final point. To keep things civil I will be making a Moderator Post IC immediately after the beast is felled to set the scene for how all those involved will be competing over the ‘awarded’ Artefact. Aside from damage (and teaming up), no one will have any inherent advantages in laying claim to the Artefact.

All that said, a separate OOC thread for the competition portion of this will need to be created with battle rules decided by ALL that will be involved in the battle over this Artefact. Lastly, as Proto is the wronged party in this instance and initially came to me asking my opinion, he should have time before he goes away to a wedding this weekend, to post a response to this and add anything that I may have missed, overlooked, or had been in the wrong about. Hopefully he will do so, but he didn’t want to leave this in the air forcing him to freeze the topic until he returns, so he had me render my best judgement.

Oh, and to answer Desco’s question. Yes the beast does need to die as per the Artefact’s actual description. Otherwise no Artefact will be rendered. If that is the route you want to go for the story, of course that is fine, but you need to let me know that no subsequent competition for it will be occurring.

I really don’t want to see any response to this until Proto weighs in in the morning, so I’ll be locking this topic for the time being.

[Proto Man]

I don't disagree with anything stated by Sarah.

It boils down to this - You don't bypass rules for how threads are graded and you don't give yourself things that you haven't earned.

If this were just some buddies playing around, sure, you can throw 'curve balls' like abruptly ending everything and winning. But this isn't. An artefact hunt might be player-driven, but it still falls under the veil of being staff-run, as it is a staff member who assesses and hands out awards. You don't get to suddenly win everything or kill everything. We had that issue with Inlumia in the last big artefact hunt when he decided to just kill all the dragons and win. It's a form of god-moding.

And don't give Sarah shit for doing the job she doesn't get paid for. She takes, for whatever reason, more crap from the memberbase than any other staff member.

And I can't respond to things when I am asleep.

With that said, I'll be back in a day and a half. I'll be straight up -- I don't want to be bothered by this website unless I feel like it. If there are any complaints with this, you can appeal to Ganondorf, because I don't want to be bothered with it.

[Proto Man]

And this might also be worth mentioning to everyone for future record.

This wasn't 'your thread,' Dio. It was an artefact quest involving 7 people. It stopped being anyone's thread when there was a judgment and prize at the end, as well as the fact that it's a competition.

[Sarah_Kerrigan]

This has been unlocked for the sole purpose of communication in regards to the final leg of this quest. Whirda will understand what I mean when he reads my pm.

[PepsiWhirda]

I'm going to make the final post here soon. The contents will be: clearing up Dio's language as to what actually happened in his post (who's where, how the explosives are intended to be used); and then detonating the explosives to deal the "killing" blow, and sending the tarrasque burrowing to safety. I will not include any details about the artefact. I have no personal interest in it myself, but I might skirmish around for fun if it seems like everyone's plan is to play fair and have a good time. Any details about the artefact will be handled by Proto (next in the post order), and Sarah. I won't mention it at all in my post.

If anyone has a better idea or an issue with my plan, let me know here or via PM. I'm going to start writing now but I'll hold off on posting until I see a general consensus.

[Drogon]

Is there any particular reason we have to have the thing "burrow to safety?" It just sort of eats into my sense of accomplishment in defeating the thing if he'll be back and totally fine again, rampaging through the moors in just a week or two.

[Atelos]

You do know that if the Tarrasque does not die we do not get the artifact nor complete the quest right?

[Sarah_Kerrigan]

That needs to be discussed with Proto, Atelos. There is a direct contradiction in the description of the Artefact and the Quest Stipulation.

[PepsiWhirda]

You do know that if the Tarrasque does not die we do not get the artifact nor complete the quest right?

If there really can't be something worked out to maintain the spirit of the tarrasque and still reward us for our achievement, then I don't particularly care either way. But I'll ask Proto what he thinks.

[PepsiWhirda]

Is there any particular reason we have to have the thing "burrow to safety?" It just sort of eats into my sense of accomplishment in defeating the thing if he'll be back and totally fine again, rampaging through the moors in just a week or two.

It's part of what a tarrasque is. It was designed to be unkillable; when it takes what would otherwise be fatal damage, it burrows to the core for an indeterminate period of time (sometimes years, sometimes centuries) in order to regenerate. Contrary to what you said, I think bringing it back in a couple years for a new group to try their hand at is super cool and doesn't really diminish the magnitude of our accomplishment.

If there's a consensus, I'll leave it out. I just want this thread to be cool to read and finally over with.

[Drogon]

Ahh, see, that's fine then. I was just under the impression that the thing would be back much, much sooner and messing the place up again. If it'll be a few years at least though, then at least I can feel alright about it.

[Proto Man]

So the monster's done. Now we have the part where we have to determine who is willing to put their neck out for a chance at the resulting artefact.

I'm next, and my post will be a transition between quest and the resulting scuffle. Whoever wins that will walk away with the artefact.

[PepsiWhirda]

Lastly, given the points illustrated above Protoman has asked me to determine an appropriate penalty for this gross miscommunication. He believes Dio should only receive 50% of the participation bonus for the threads involving this quest, and I agree that in this instance, that is fair. Personally, I would have revoked it entirely as I don’t think this behavior is okay in any form. I don’t care if it was a simple mistake, there is no excuse for not communicating to your writing partners about what is to happen. It is necessary so misinterpretations like this do not occur.

I'm going to weigh in on this now that I've spoken with most of the people involved. There are some key points I don't think have been totally brought to light, and it's become clear the whole situation has been mishandled on both sides. Feel free to delete this post, ignore me, send me a PM with opinions, ban me - whatever.

1) I think many of us disagree with Dio's approach to the site ideologically. This isn't necessarily to say he was treated unfairly in the aftermath of an obvious fuck-up, but I also wouldn't be comfortable saying the penalty would have been as harsh for a member held in generally "higher regard" by the staff.

2) If the 50% OM penalty applies as far back as Dio's pre-Tarrasqing a Question threads, then it is a massive penalty for what boils down to miscommunication. Dio has indicated it may be as much as 4k OM all things considered. I didn't check this number myself, but I can see that it would be a significant and far-reaching penalty affecting writing occurring even before his plans considering the artefact were formed.

In my opinion, from a writing/game design/not taking any sides perspective, there is a more mature approach to the penalty than what seems to have been something of a snap decision. I can provide quotes from multiple members, including some involved directly in the tarrasque quest, indicating they don't agree with the severity of the penalty assigned. A more localized penalty to the issue at hand seems called for - maybe ineligibility to receive the artefact, maybe revocation of all quest rewards associated with killing the tarrasque, maybe something else I haven't bothered to think up.

3) The flippant behavior of the moderation staff on the front end of the issue - that is, what I can see from reading all associated threads and some general comments provided by Proto and Sarah - is unprofessional on its face.

I'll be straight up -- I don't want to be bothered by this website unless I feel like it. If there are any complaints with this, you can appeal to Ganondorf, because I don't want to be bothered with it.

When I see a comment like this from the administrator of the site, especially someone heralded as the golden poster boy of mature, responsible moderation, it's uninspiring. I get that drama like this drags the whole site down. I understand it's not an issue you should have to deal with, and that you're not being paid for the (mostly) excellent work being done here, but when your comment is in the form of an official judgment, the least you can do is appear to have put an appropriate amount of thought and maturity into the punishment being assigned.

4) I honestly believe Dio felt that I was doing more to convey his intentions than I was. Whether that was through his fault or mine, I can't say. I knew about his plan and agreed with it from a storytelling perspective (it was a cool idea!) although I disagree with the execution. Like I said, I disagree with him ideologically; I think good writing and fair competition should always come before the security of one person's best laid plans, and there are times in dealing with Dio that I feel relegated to the role of an NPC meant only to witness his grand design. That is a separate issue and I want to emphasize that any feelings concerning his approach to the site or any past issues should not bleed into the penalty assigned for this isolated incident.

The communication could have been better on both sides. A penalty is obviously called for, but I don't see how anything extending beyond the Primordial Weapon thread is fair. It's safe to say the communication issues experienced here aren't going to be employed in a repeat performance by Dio and stunting his growth this significantly is only a deterrent to keep writing and improving (fuck if I know, maybe that was the point). Sometimes people get heated and sometimes they fuck up. This whole website is kids moderating other kids, but at a certain point it has to be realized that people commit a lot of time to The Omniverse and some will take it more seriously than others.

tl;dr Coming from a neutral party who's pretty disgusted with every aspect of this issue, I think a penalty is necessary but its severity should be reconsidered. I personally could have been more emphatic about bringing Dio and Proto together to discuss the specifics of the artefact reveal. I think Dio mishandled the situation and is primarily to blame, but the whole situation could have ended more favorably with more patience and maturity than what I witnessed.

[Sarah_Kerrigan]

It applies to the threads relating to the Tarrasque. I'd also like to point out: the Participation Bonus isn't even guaranteed in the first place. If - for whatever reason - someone judging a quest, a fight or what have you feels that it doesn't warrant a bonus, then it may not be awarded in the first place. Given the nature of the infraction, we felt taking part of it away initially - instead of other methods - would be appropriate.

Again it's only for the quest threads. In fact, I'd even be willing to say it only applies to Primordial Weapon (since that is where it happens). Well, regarding it applying to the quest threads anyways. You have it quoted at the top actually.

Thank you for your opinion on the matter.

[PepsiWhirda]

It applies to the threads relating to the Tarrasque. I'd also like to point out: the Participation Bonus isn't even guaranteed in the first place. If - for whatever reason - someone judging a quest, a fight or what have you feels that it doesn't warrant a bonus, then it may not be awarded in the first place. Given the nature of the infraction, we felt taking part of it away initially - instead of other methods would be appropriate.

Again it's only for the quest threads. In fact, I'd even be willing to say it only applies to Primordial Weapon (since that is where it happens). Well, regarding it applying to the quest threads anyways. You have it quoted at the top actually.

Thank you for your opinion on the matter.

Sounds good. I was under the impression it was going way back to his first mentions of the tarrasque. I'll leave it alone now. :-)