[split] Desco Stuff

[Trixie]

WIthout some type of M-word you don't want to talk about, it doesn't matter whether he hands it to Guu, Jzall, Cell, Meruem, Trixie, or any other prime.

It becomes an incidental weapon when the situation at hand is PvP.

Omniphysics.

Mmm the faq you linked me specifically says weapons made by someone with 5 or more ATK  (Or TEC but I'm assuming that is for debuff power) are an exception when it comes to stolen weapons. The example uses here has 18 ATK.

Could you explain how that does or does not apply to this?

That sentence is referring to the previous statement about guns not being as strong in the Omniverse compared to their real world counterparts. It isn't saying that incidental rules get thrown out at 5+ ATK and TEC.

[Handsome Jack]

Actually, it only says they're an exception to guns being weaker than their real life counterparts. I can see where the confusion lies and it may be necessary to update the FAQ to remove duplicate questions and clarify some things. But unless Greg jumps in and says that stealing Palp's Lightsaber is better than buying a T3 Super Moves, assume that any weapon you pick up which you don't specifically possess a Move for is gonna be severely weakened, probably far below your actual stats. Even if summoned by Omni himself.

[Schwi Dola]

I would also like to add this context Even if it is a bad idea to pick up my enemies weapon to use, it can still be an RP tool.

And stop bringing up gaming the system in contexts that it doesn't apply, this is the third time. The system doesn't care about stats or mechanics only story quality. Gaming the system would inherently revolve around that such as making your character inherently difficult to RP against.

Stats and power is how the world works, I have to know this as a player to RP properly.

[Takanomiya Hijiri]

I think the problem Desco has is that there is no IC explanation in the rules as to why an incidental weapon can be used at full strength by a secondary in your personal storyline... yet as soon as you engage another prime in combat, that weapon becomes useless...

Obviously we all know that that's what happens, since that is necessary from a balance perspective so as not to allow players to game the system by throwing random NPCs at their opponent until they win, that bit is clear enough... the problem is how to go about writing this without it sounding like utter trash...

Without some specific explanation as to how it was suddenly possible, it would seem so dumb if your character went from being terrified of a rocket-launching secondary in your storyline to casually batting their rockets out of the air and walking through their explosions like it was nothing during a fight with another prime... although you are entirely within your rights to do so, according to the rules.

Would it be possible to have something added to the relevant rules page to give an IC explanation as to why incidental weapons suddenly lose their effectiveness during fights between primes?
It wouldn't have to make sense any more than the bit about the passage of time being slowed by dramatic events does... but for those of us who like writing (somewhat) believable interactions in our stories, a proper IC reason for why this happens would be really nice.

[Schwi Dola]

It just is can be the IC explanation. That matters but isn't the root to the problem now.

The root now is that stealing weapons talks about high power weapons still being high power with a definitely achievable 5+ ATK qualifier. The implication of incidental means weaker, but not peashooter.

That secondaries are inherently stronger than primes with foreign weapons is a separate implication. Actually since the average secondary is supposed to be equal to a level 1 Prime, a resourceful secondary should have significant advantages over newer and stupider primes since they 'can' equip Palp's light saber. Extreme but more to the point they can gear themselves stronger while Primes can't. 

Power based on user's attack for incidental was a lot simpler, even reduced should still be as strong as unarmed attacks if you have the prof for strength or ranged.

[Takanomiya Hijiri]

Actually since the average secondary is supposed to be equal to a level 1 Prime,

I apologise for going off topic here, but are you sure about that?
I was under the impression that the average secondary was supposed to be the same as the average person IRL... meaning their stats would be 1/1/1/1?

[Schwi Dola]

Yes, I recall over the years several public service announcements of how people should stop treating storm troopers as canon fodder because secondaries are generally equal to the fresh no OM gained Prime.


A different point to bring up concerning all of this. Especially to Alex.

I was in the first completes bounty for OV, and I was penalized by the judge for not taking an incidental weapon attack more seriously. Magus didn't even have physical strength at the time of the fight.

So that is my personal experience with how incidental weapons are actually handled.

[Handsome Jack]

I don't think Alex was clear enough for ya, so I'll clear it up as best I can.

Secondaries don't use incidental weapons at "full" strength either, unless a Prime purchased that weapon as a Move which would state: "Any Secondary who picks this up uses it at the (insert power here)".

Incidental weapons ARE still weapons and should be treated as such. They're simply not AS effective as a Move would be. I can't weigh in on what your Judge was thinking when they graded that Bounty, but that's the rule.

Normal (peasants, townies merchants) Secondaries are around 1s in everything. Soldiers would be like Fountain Fresh Primes.