[split] Desco Stuff

[Schwi Dola]

Weird question; if two Secondaries share the same gun, is the gun's power still based on what their ATK stat would be? If so is the "More powerful the man, more powerful the weapon" fact somewhat known to NPC's? Sort of like just another fact of Omniphysics?

The power of a gun or any weapon is related to who summoned it and the OM used in it... unless said gun was designed to like, alter based upon who held it.

The obvious "omniphysics" moment is "incidental weapons" in combat situations, but you're talking hypotheticals with secondaries not combat involving primes.

So if 18 attack Proto dropped a gun in the hands of a secondary it's still 18 attack but if he drops it in Desco's hand it's 4 attack?

[Alex]

http://omniverse-rpg.com/omnifaq.php#General_FAQ

[Schwi Dola]

That is very unclear because an incidental weapon as far as I knew depended upon the strength of the wielder not the creator and is substainially weaker than a move.

Your response implicates that characters should consider strategies like move creating weapons for your allies. That a valid tactic is to go into an alt form with 5 attack and then change to a form with 0 attack and 5 SPD. to use the weapon more effectively. It opens up a wide world of new strategies a player can roleplay.

[Alex]

The initial question was about secondaries and weapons wielded by secondaries.

You want to share guns with allies? Make a Move.

[Schwi Dola]

Stealing or taking a weapon from another is an incidental weapon is it not? I feel like this is a question and the answer from three years ago. Making a move doesn' apply to this.

[Alex]

You want to create a weapon in combat and share it with a friend?

I'm 100% sure that's something you can do with a Move. What would that Move look like? I'd visit the Move Workshop. I'm sure someone there can help you.

If you don't have a Move, that's what we call "an incidental weapon." If "incidental weapon" is the phrase you're lost on, that's what we in the business call "something random that you pluck from the environment." These are things that aren't effective against primes, because we don't want two people getting into a fight and someone just randomly grabs a holy hand grenade from Joe Moe Secondary and tries to murder kill their adversary.

I'm still not sure what your point is with any of this. Is there something you don't understand or are you just trying to crunch numbers to figure out some way to game some aspect of the system?

If you still have questions, you can request that this exchange be split into its own thread. Otherwise, I'll request that you let this go back to being the quick questions thread.

[Schwi Dola]

Okay take for instance Proto makes a rocket launcher with 18 ATK. Hands it to a nothing secondary, easily blows through a bank vault door no?

How the world actually works drastically affects how I roleplay my character. Especially as Schwi will work a lot directly with secondaries and I would want her to figure out how the world works to provide for her secondaries.

I was previously under the impression that a weapon's strength is determined by the wielder and not being a Move also cut it's power.

[Trixie]

Okay take for instance Proto makes a rocket launcher with 18 ATK. Hands it to a nothing secondary, easily blows through a bank vault door no?

How the world actually works drastically affects how I roleplay my character. Especially as Schwi will work a lot directly with secondaries and I would want her to figure out how the world works to provide for her secondaries.

I was previously under the impression that a weapon's strength is determined by the wielder and not being a Move also cut it's power.

Where in god grains earth are you getting the 18 ATK number from?

[Schwi Dola]

Proto has a form in move approval with 18 ATK when I left for work today

[13-Jzall]

Proto has a form in move approval with 18 ATK when I left for work today

I can confirm this.

[Schwi Dola]

The extreme difference illustrates the point it itself is not the point. Anyone could get that attack with fusion and allies.

[Alex]

Due to this balancing effect, two weapons summoned by the same individual that result in the same effect will always have the same strength, regardless of the weapon's mechanism. Be it steampunk technology, magically-powered or modern technology, the effect will be the same. They are linked to the user's own skill and power, and so a stronger individual can often summon a stronger weapon. As a result of this so-called 'balancing effect', summoning a weapon that is powerful in real-life such as a rifle won't be more powerful than a traditional equivalent such as a bow and arrow.

Different kinds of weapons summoned by the same individual may vary in power depending on the weapon's mode of operation. Slower weapons tend to be stronger, while quicker weapons tend to be weaker, in contrast with the real-world. This is one of the more obvious ways it can be observed that the Omniverse has its own strange brand of physics, dubbed 'omni-physics' for simplicity. As a result, people are often surprised to find that rapid-fire weapons aren't necessarily a better choice than a pistol, and may even be weaker.

I think the disconnect we are having is "What I can do in PvP" versus "What I can do everywhere else"

You can certainly make your own weapons and give them away/sell them/whatever. Proto Man could toss his mythical rocket launcher to someone to provide suppressing fire as they race away from the villain of the story. Based on your concept, I imagine that you look forward to the Forces update so that Schwii or whomever can use their omnilium to provide for his/her/its cohort.

In combat, you can't just hand off stuff to people like that, because that's the rule. Much like with SP uses and fusion and other stuff, outside of combat it's a different ball park.

[Schwi Dola]

Okay hypothetical.

You have some handheld gun, a pistol and you are in 18 atk mode.

Desco hits you with a t2 super move and your reaction is that you dropped the pistol.

Desco picks up that pistol and shoots Proto.

How powerful is the pistol? Am I not allowed to do This? This seems to be good RPing, if the pistol retains your power then a low power character like mine would want to use that power against you by any means nessecary.

Consequently if I could do that it would make sense in the other situations I describe, sharing weapons with allies etc.

[Alex]

Stealing a weapon in a PvP situation makes it an incident weapon -- FAQ7

[Schwi Dola]

Yes that is obvious. That is what this topic is about, incidental weapons. specifially the power of then and what you might do with your weapons when you have that absurdly high attack, in all situations.

[Handsome Jack]

In your hypothetical of a rocket launcher made by Proto and picked up by you, it would suck against another person in PvP, because it's an incidental weapon. If Proto made a "Give Desco a Rocket Launcher" Move, it would operate at full-strength.

Understandable?

[Schwi Dola]

I got that but that's not what this is about. I don'
 care about moves for this topic.

if it still breaks steel due to 18 attack when handed off it would still be stronger than what Desco could do. with the stats she has. If he handed that to someone with 0 ATK, the difference is even higher.

Or primes have an inherent weakness vs secondaries when it comes to incidental weapons?

[Alex]

WIthout some type of M-word you don't want to talk about, it doesn't matter whether he hands it to Guu, Jzall, Cell, Meruem, Trixie, or any other prime.

It becomes an incidental weapon when the situation at hand is PvP.

Omniphysics.

[Handsome Jack]

it would suck against another person in PvP, because it's an incidental weapon

Feel free to rationalize why it sucks in a way that makes sense to you.

[Schwi Dola]

WIthout some type of M-word you don't want to talk about, it doesn't matter whether he hands it to Guu, Jzall, Cell, Meruem, Trixie, or any other prime.

It becomes an incidental weapon when the situation at hand is PvP.

Omniphysics.

Mmm the faq you linked me specifically says weapons made by someone with 5 or more ATK  (Or TEC but I'm assuming that is for debuff power) are an exception when it comes to stolen weapons. The example uses here has 18 ATK.

Could you explain how that does or does not apply to this?