07-05-2018, 10:11 PM
@Yuuka: I think that's somewhat incorrect. Because...
>The majority of members definitely don't make moves like that. At least not noticeably. Usually, juggling drawbacks only comes into play when someone's trying to balance a more complicated move, and I try my best to help them out with that. I'm sure some members definitely try to get the most they can for as little, primarily to avoid charge times, I guess. But I was under the impression they were a minority. Then again, I can't read minds.
>The moves system hasn't really been going anywhere. The last time the move rules were substantially changed was long before I joined the OV, but it was smoothed along with an update some time last year to make some parts easier.
>I might be wrong on this part, but at least to me, isn't the whole "best character" debate all a big fun fudge? Do people actually take it seriously? TEC is still best stat. Realism should always play some part in fights. And, if someone would find it hard to hit someone else, then they've gotta think of a creative way to do it or just get a lucky shot. 5 TEC only blocks *most* stuff from unskilled fighters, no all.
@Jeff: Something like that could work for join apps, maybe? But that does kinda lock creativity a lot. Having a good list of example moves, I'm all for that. I dunno about everyone else, but I like feeling my moves are at least somewhat personal. Even if Eb ain't the only Scythe wielder out there, that's her scythe.
@Bandit: Some comments...
"and the strictness of "variability" costing more is way too much"
>That's mostly because you'd getting 2 or more moves for the price of one otherwise. Often, I find most moves tend to end up cheaper than people expect.
"A Pistol, a shotgun and a machine gun are all fairly different weapons in the real world, but in the OV, they all function essentially the same."
>Yeah. Pistols do basically work the same in the OV. Which is why it's totally fine to just say "it has this much ammo, can be shot this often, and takes about this long to reload". That's it.
"and fights are graded based on WRITING."
>Some part of who wins a fight is based around "who would win" as well as the actual writing itself. Different judges do weight it somewhat differently. This DA is pure writing, last DA definitely wasn't.
"I feel like most of the irritating things about Moves rules (fatigue, Focus, Damage, exact ranges, extremely precise measurements, by the second refresh times) are metrics that hold next to NO MEANING in an actual fight."
>Fatigue: While I'm sure some people don't have the words to include this, isn't getting tired and pushing through your limits something most writers try to include in most fights? Anyway, fatigue cost doesn't need to be included in moves. It's a drawback you can choose to add.
>Focus: This is more implied. It's just a natural thing. If you're fighting with a sword in one hand, it'll be hard to shoot people with the pistol in your others. It's writing fodder, yeah. You don't really need to say "I am focusing" in your moves. If you're charging something up, you're probably focusing. If you're aiming something, you're probably focusing.
>Damage: This does not need to be specified in moves. Damage is implied by the drawbacks. If you have a long charge time, it will be high damage. If it's quick and easy, it'll be lower. I'll only recommend for you to add this if you intend to make a powerful move and aren't sure if the drawbacks justify that, or if your drawbacks are really obscure.
>Exact Ranges: You do not need a range for projectiles. We assume bullets travel until they hit something. It's not a requirement for moves. I'll only ask for a range on explosions or summoned stuff and other types of attacks. Specifying a range is usually optional.
>Extremely Precise Measurements: Not really. For speeds "as fast as a bullet/arrow" is fine. As are other irl comparisons. For sizes, "about a metre" "about 3ft" is fine. We don't need the exact size. But we do need a rough measurement. Although I tend to find giving your sword an exact size in cm tends to make it more personalised.
>By The Second Refresh Times: If you want a charge time or something, yeah. We do want that specifically. Is it 3 seconds? 5 seconds? How long is a moment? I don't think that's so unreasonable, and if you want to vary the charge time about, just spend an extra 300 OM and you can charge it for as long or little as you want.
"but when we start pricing an M4 at 900 OM because it has a selector switch with 3 options is completely pointless."
>It's like having 3 different guns. Burst does more damage in a short period of time. Semi-auto does more damage per bullet, but paced over time. Etc.
>The majority of members definitely don't make moves like that. At least not noticeably. Usually, juggling drawbacks only comes into play when someone's trying to balance a more complicated move, and I try my best to help them out with that. I'm sure some members definitely try to get the most they can for as little, primarily to avoid charge times, I guess. But I was under the impression they were a minority. Then again, I can't read minds.
>The moves system hasn't really been going anywhere. The last time the move rules were substantially changed was long before I joined the OV, but it was smoothed along with an update some time last year to make some parts easier.
>I might be wrong on this part, but at least to me, isn't the whole "best character" debate all a big fun fudge? Do people actually take it seriously? TEC is still best stat. Realism should always play some part in fights. And, if someone would find it hard to hit someone else, then they've gotta think of a creative way to do it or just get a lucky shot. 5 TEC only blocks *most* stuff from unskilled fighters, no all.
@Jeff: Something like that could work for join apps, maybe? But that does kinda lock creativity a lot. Having a good list of example moves, I'm all for that. I dunno about everyone else, but I like feeling my moves are at least somewhat personal. Even if Eb ain't the only Scythe wielder out there, that's her scythe.
@Bandit: Some comments...
"and the strictness of "variability" costing more is way too much"
>That's mostly because you'd getting 2 or more moves for the price of one otherwise. Often, I find most moves tend to end up cheaper than people expect.
"A Pistol, a shotgun and a machine gun are all fairly different weapons in the real world, but in the OV, they all function essentially the same."
>Yeah. Pistols do basically work the same in the OV. Which is why it's totally fine to just say "it has this much ammo, can be shot this often, and takes about this long to reload". That's it.
"and fights are graded based on WRITING."
>Some part of who wins a fight is based around "who would win" as well as the actual writing itself. Different judges do weight it somewhat differently. This DA is pure writing, last DA definitely wasn't.
"I feel like most of the irritating things about Moves rules (fatigue, Focus, Damage, exact ranges, extremely precise measurements, by the second refresh times) are metrics that hold next to NO MEANING in an actual fight."
>Fatigue: While I'm sure some people don't have the words to include this, isn't getting tired and pushing through your limits something most writers try to include in most fights? Anyway, fatigue cost doesn't need to be included in moves. It's a drawback you can choose to add.
>Focus: This is more implied. It's just a natural thing. If you're fighting with a sword in one hand, it'll be hard to shoot people with the pistol in your others. It's writing fodder, yeah. You don't really need to say "I am focusing" in your moves. If you're charging something up, you're probably focusing. If you're aiming something, you're probably focusing.
>Damage: This does not need to be specified in moves. Damage is implied by the drawbacks. If you have a long charge time, it will be high damage. If it's quick and easy, it'll be lower. I'll only recommend for you to add this if you intend to make a powerful move and aren't sure if the drawbacks justify that, or if your drawbacks are really obscure.
>Exact Ranges: You do not need a range for projectiles. We assume bullets travel until they hit something. It's not a requirement for moves. I'll only ask for a range on explosions or summoned stuff and other types of attacks. Specifying a range is usually optional.
>Extremely Precise Measurements: Not really. For speeds "as fast as a bullet/arrow" is fine. As are other irl comparisons. For sizes, "about a metre" "about 3ft" is fine. We don't need the exact size. But we do need a rough measurement. Although I tend to find giving your sword an exact size in cm tends to make it more personalised.
>By The Second Refresh Times: If you want a charge time or something, yeah. We do want that specifically. Is it 3 seconds? 5 seconds? How long is a moment? I don't think that's so unreasonable, and if you want to vary the charge time about, just spend an extra 300 OM and you can charge it for as long or little as you want.
"but when we start pricing an M4 at 900 OM because it has a selector switch with 3 options is completely pointless."
>It's like having 3 different guns. Burst does more damage in a short period of time. Semi-auto does more damage per bullet, but paced over time. Etc.