08-03-2017, 07:02 PM
@Ebonywood
Option A Response:
I'm waiting for the final draft of Forces and its release before making any final decisions, considering I don't know if all the current information is both final and complete in detail and regulations.
Option B Response:
This is a possibility, but I'd keep it as just one to start with. However, I was more considering using this with the current set up to make one or multiple of the Shadows briefly self-aware and capable of fighting individually of the Move itself. This would come later, perhaps as a more "Story developed" type ordeal, or at the very least when Zi realizes his dumb side kicks are too dumb in some situations (particularly against high TEC opponents.
Option C Response:
Well yes and no... Super Move intigration is a big thing, especially after relevant powers are achieved. Using the Shadows as additional costs, I already have ideas for super attacks, defenses and utilities. These will probably have their own thread in this topic when I get ready to work on them in greater detail.
Moving on to the breakdown . . . . .
I like the idea of having an advantage if you've seen the casting. Maybe those who witnessed the casting only require a study of 1 second per TEC lower than Zi's (halving the time required to realize it as false.)
I also have Suppression, so we'll tack that into the Required list.
Here be Math
[spoiler]
I don't think that math is quite right, considering each new clone is its number in sequence times ten. So the fifth would require fifty seconds. Your equation 5n^2 + 5n has the fifth in sequence taking 650 seconds to cast, which is almost eleven minutes. That's enough time to create an entirely sentient secondary. I agree it would probably be quadratic over exponential though.
10s is the cost of each Shadow, where s is how many shadows there will be upon casting the spell.
For example, the fifth shadow will simply take 50 seconds to cast, and the third will take 30 seconds.
When casting multiple at the same time, the equation would be a bit more complex, because we have to account for the current Shadows on the field and then begin mid sequence. I just broke it down to simple (30 plus 40 plus 50) and left it at that.
[/spoiler]
On to the clarification . . . . . . . . .
> If they are not revealed to be illusions, they can take roughly as many as anyone with 1 Defense, because they don't actually take damage. After they are revealed, it takes just one to disband them.
> They are not as fast as Zi, running as if they had one point of speed less than Zi.
> They are pretty dumb. Their TEC is essentially 1.
> Zi cannot attack or cast other spells, but he can move at normal speeds. He is incapable of using Super Speed or Burst Movement. He can be Stealthed while casting, but upon completion he becomes visible.
> Zi cannot use other "spell" type moves while casting this spell.
> To create a Shadow mid-fight is quite draining, though he usually has them beforehand.
Patching Problems . . . . . . . . . .
>This is a big problem for low-TEC players, but if the ATK is lowered, then when they are realized as illusions, they would not do any damage at all. It's already easy to see through them for the average skilled fighter.
>Zi could take the full damage to those realized as Illusions, but only a fifth of the killing blow to those not realized as Illusions.
>The Shadows must be realized as illusions for their effective ATK and DEF to drop (ATK to 1/5th, DEF to -- (1HKO)) so an additional downside to power for Zi would make him weaker than the unrealized shadows.
A point on drawbacks, the time to summon just one lost Shadow (to keep to a maximum of five) is fifty seconds. If all are destroyed in a single area-of-effect blast, not only does Zi take damage as if he were hit by the same attack twice (1/5th damage from five unrealized Shadows, and himself) up to six times (if all were realized) so an AoE Super Attack, even at T1, is potentially lethal.
Another aspect is that re-summoning them is very difficult to downright impossible in the heat of battle. Just losing one and resummoning it takes 50 seconds. Trying to re-summon all five takes two and a half minutes of casting no other spell and no super/burst speed. Unless he is stealthed, he will never have this amount of time in a fight.
Command: Attack Response:
Essentially their stats are 1 ATK, 1 DEF, 2 SPD, 1 TEC
Realized stats: 0 ATK, 1HK, 2 SPD, 1 TEC
Command At Ease Response:
They essentially exist individually of him. While "At Ease" they do the absolute minimum to appear "real" such as look around, slight fidgeting, etc. If there is a drain,
Command: Shuffle Response:
> I like the idea of a routine. For each time Shuffle is used, treat the opponent's TEC as one higher for the purposes of revealing Shadows as Illusions. This means that in a drawn out battle (Opponent with high DEF) low TEC opponents have a chance of realizing patterns fairly quickly.
>Shuffle lasts only a single second, the allotment allowed by Burst Movement.
>As tiring as using Burst Movement and Remote control, so it can't be used excessively. It is a purely utility move, so it cannot be used in conjunction with attacks.
Command: Work Response:
>Thought this would be Fodder. No matter, that's fine.
>Objects cannot realize their falsehood, so as much as Zi can.
>If acting individually (not being actively controlled) they can lift a heavy object and move it to where you point, but they cannot stitch a pair of pants effectively, even if you tell them how. IT simply requires too much technique. They can boil water, add tea bags, and bring the glass to a person if given individual orders, but they don't have the capacity to remember an extended sequence at one time.
Usually Zi is actively controlling the workers, much like a foreman of sorts. They can do grunt work and usually cannot be left alone with any sort of mildly complicated task. As a rule of thumb, two steps is the most they can remember and process. Pick up, put down over there.
Option A Response:
I'm waiting for the final draft of Forces and its release before making any final decisions, considering I don't know if all the current information is both final and complete in detail and regulations.
Option B Response:
This is a possibility, but I'd keep it as just one to start with. However, I was more considering using this with the current set up to make one or multiple of the Shadows briefly self-aware and capable of fighting individually of the Move itself. This would come later, perhaps as a more "Story developed" type ordeal, or at the very least when Zi realizes his dumb side kicks are too dumb in some situations (particularly against high TEC opponents.
Option C Response:
Well yes and no... Super Move intigration is a big thing, especially after relevant powers are achieved. Using the Shadows as additional costs, I already have ideas for super attacks, defenses and utilities. These will probably have their own thread in this topic when I get ready to work on them in greater detail.
Moving on to the breakdown . . . . .
I like the idea of having an advantage if you've seen the casting. Maybe those who witnessed the casting only require a study of 1 second per TEC lower than Zi's (halving the time required to realize it as false.)
I also have Suppression, so we'll tack that into the Required list.
Here be Math
[spoiler]
I don't think that math is quite right, considering each new clone is its number in sequence times ten. So the fifth would require fifty seconds. Your equation 5n^2 + 5n has the fifth in sequence taking 650 seconds to cast, which is almost eleven minutes. That's enough time to create an entirely sentient secondary. I agree it would probably be quadratic over exponential though.
10s is the cost of each Shadow, where s is how many shadows there will be upon casting the spell.
For example, the fifth shadow will simply take 50 seconds to cast, and the third will take 30 seconds.
When casting multiple at the same time, the equation would be a bit more complex, because we have to account for the current Shadows on the field and then begin mid sequence. I just broke it down to simple (30 plus 40 plus 50) and left it at that.
[/spoiler]
On to the clarification . . . . . . . . .
> If they are not revealed to be illusions, they can take roughly as many as anyone with 1 Defense, because they don't actually take damage. After they are revealed, it takes just one to disband them.
> They are not as fast as Zi, running as if they had one point of speed less than Zi.
> They are pretty dumb. Their TEC is essentially 1.
> Zi cannot attack or cast other spells, but he can move at normal speeds. He is incapable of using Super Speed or Burst Movement. He can be Stealthed while casting, but upon completion he becomes visible.
> Zi cannot use other "spell" type moves while casting this spell.
> To create a Shadow mid-fight is quite draining, though he usually has them beforehand.
Patching Problems . . . . . . . . . .
>This is a big problem for low-TEC players, but if the ATK is lowered, then when they are realized as illusions, they would not do any damage at all. It's already easy to see through them for the average skilled fighter.
>Zi could take the full damage to those realized as Illusions, but only a fifth of the killing blow to those not realized as Illusions.
>The Shadows must be realized as illusions for their effective ATK and DEF to drop (ATK to 1/5th, DEF to -- (1HKO)) so an additional downside to power for Zi would make him weaker than the unrealized shadows.
A point on drawbacks, the time to summon just one lost Shadow (to keep to a maximum of five) is fifty seconds. If all are destroyed in a single area-of-effect blast, not only does Zi take damage as if he were hit by the same attack twice (1/5th damage from five unrealized Shadows, and himself) up to six times (if all were realized) so an AoE Super Attack, even at T1, is potentially lethal.
Another aspect is that re-summoning them is very difficult to downright impossible in the heat of battle. Just losing one and resummoning it takes 50 seconds. Trying to re-summon all five takes two and a half minutes of casting no other spell and no super/burst speed. Unless he is stealthed, he will never have this amount of time in a fight.
Command: Attack Response:
Essentially their stats are 1 ATK, 1 DEF, 2 SPD, 1 TEC
Realized stats: 0 ATK, 1HK, 2 SPD, 1 TEC
Command At Ease Response:
They essentially exist individually of him. While "At Ease" they do the absolute minimum to appear "real" such as look around, slight fidgeting, etc. If there is a drain,
Command: Shuffle Response:
> I like the idea of a routine. For each time Shuffle is used, treat the opponent's TEC as one higher for the purposes of revealing Shadows as Illusions. This means that in a drawn out battle (Opponent with high DEF) low TEC opponents have a chance of realizing patterns fairly quickly.
>Shuffle lasts only a single second, the allotment allowed by Burst Movement.
>As tiring as using Burst Movement and Remote control, so it can't be used excessively. It is a purely utility move, so it cannot be used in conjunction with attacks.
Command: Work Response:
>Thought this would be Fodder. No matter, that's fine.
>Objects cannot realize their falsehood, so as much as Zi can.
>If acting individually (not being actively controlled) they can lift a heavy object and move it to where you point, but they cannot stitch a pair of pants effectively, even if you tell them how. IT simply requires too much technique. They can boil water, add tea bags, and bring the glass to a person if given individual orders, but they don't have the capacity to remember an extended sequence at one time.
Usually Zi is actively controlling the workers, much like a foreman of sorts. They can do grunt work and usually cannot be left alone with any sort of mildly complicated task. As a rule of thumb, two steps is the most they can remember and process. Pick up, put down over there.