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Upcoming Level and Balance Changes - For Review
#1
The current level requirements were made 4 years ago, before we had any real "data" to go on, and they are pretty basic. Cost increases go up 1000 OM per level (with the exception of the first increase, which is that way because the initial starting OM was 4000 before it was raised to 5000). It's ... fine, I guess. But four years gives a lot of time to watch the system in action, and to think about how it might be improved.

For quite a while now I've had the idea of changing the level goalposts to do two main things.

1: Speeding up the low level progression, so that new players and characters can quickly become competitive with SP, especially in competitions like DA.
2: Putting a steeper curve at the higher levels to keep high-level characters from being runaway freight trains of SP usage.

The majority of our long-term players sit around the 10,000-30,000 range, and I feel they should have a little more SP to play with since, with player rotation, the majority of our memberbase will likely always sit around that level range. I don't want people to have sunk years into the site and still feel like they've not reached any real power. Those first couple of level increases are rather painful right now.

Here's the idea behind the numbers below: you get up to level 3 quickly, and then slow down, leaving the majority of active players in the 3-6 level range. At level 6, you're pretty good, and every level beyond this point will feel like a hard-earned milestone. At level 10, cost increases go up to 3000, because you're already very strong. At level 12, which I feel should be the 'soft cap' of sorts, cost increases start going up exponentially.

So, here are the proposed changes to levels. Included are the cost increases between each level, for easy reference.


1: 5000 (Starting OM, Tier 1 Super Moves Unlocked)
+1000
2: 6000 (Tier 1 Assists and Transformations Unlocked!)
+2000
3: 8000
+4000
4: 12,000 (Tier 2 Super Moves Unlocked!)
+6000
5: 18,000
+7000
6: 25,000 (Tier 2 Assists and Transformations Unlocked!)
+9000
7: 34,000
+11,000
8: 45,000 (Tier 3 Super Moves Unlocked!)
+13,000
9: 58,000
+15,000
10: 73,000 (Tier 3 Assists and Transformations Unlocked!)
+18,000
11: 91,000
+21,000
12: 112,000
+25,000
13: 137,000
+30,000
14: 167,000
+36,000
15: 203,000
+43,000
16: 246,000
+51,000
17: 297,000
+70,000
18: 367,000
+90,000
19: 457,000
+101,000
20: 558,000


Bear in mind, this doesn't change what you actually buy with OM, itself. I'm pretty happy with OM pricing for things across the board. We pay so much attention to it and we've frequently rebalanced. So ... someone with 200,000 OM, even without the SP, is still gonna have a shitload of things that give them an advantage over a low-level player. Stats, powers, alternate forms, a carnival of moves.

Most folks would gain a level. Only one character - Gildarts - would lose a level. I'm willing to make an exception for Sammy so she can stay level 12 even though she's under it, if she wants. That said, I think that most high-level folks will greater appreciate their alts being more competitive more quickly. We'll see more SP use early on, leading to more fun and interesting fights as a whole on this site.

Where to put the unlock goalposts was a separate matter entirely. However, this update seemed like the best time to look at those, too.

I decided after some furious self-debate to move the requirements for Tier 2 Transformations up a bit. Right now, I feel like you unlock them before you even really have enough SP to make it worthwhile to buy. Thus it's not that exciting when you do unlock them. It certainly wasn't for me. I didn't even buy one for Samus until she was already nearly level 6. Of course, people who already have those can keep them.

Tier 3 Power-Ups are meant to feel rare and impressive. But that's pointless if nobody ever gets them. Level 10 seems like a good point. They'd still be rare, but 3 people (Gildarts, Proto Man and Guu) would actually have them, and be feared.

Putting Tier 3 Super Moves inbetween, at level 8, gives a nice inbetween goal to shoot for, and I feel like Super Moves get a lot more use and utility, that's where players are creative. This spread also gives a nice series of unlocks every 2 levels after level 2, so characters are never too far away from the next exciting goalpost.

After doing this, I also decided to look at the "XP curve" for the other long-term purchases. Frankly, things like Stat Increase X, Level 20, and such, were always meant to be theoretical limits that were never actually reached. With that in mind, I wanted to implement more of an exponential curve. Here's what those changes would look like:

Stat Upgrade I 1000 OM
Stat Upgrade II 2000 OM (3000 total)
Stat Upgrade III 4000 OM (7000 total)
Stat Upgrade IV 7000 OM (14,000 total)
Stat Upgrade V 11,000 OM (25,000 total)
Stat Upgrade VI 16,000 OM (40,000 total)
Stat Upgrade VII 22,000 OM (62,000 total)
Stat Upgrade VIII 29,000 OM (91,000 total)
Stat Upgrade IX 37,000 OM (128,000 total)
Stat Upgrade X 46,000 OM (176,000 total)


Power-Up Boost I (+1/2/4) 10,000 OM
Power-Up Boost II (+2/4/8) 20,000 OM (30,000 total)
Power-Up Boost III (+3/6/12) 40,000 OM (70,000 total)
Power-Up Boost IV (+4/8/16) 80,000 OM (150,000 total)
Power-Up Boost V (+5/10/20) 160,000 OM (310,000 total)

Stat Upgrade IV is actually slightly cheaper, it's worth adding. These changes don't affect anyone right now.

Finally (and far more important than the above, in my opinion), I looked at the costs for increasing your Powers Cap. As mentioned in the Powers page, we like the feeling that Powers are unique and character-defining. On a previous RPG I was on, the admin had all the powers, and even he said it wasn't fun. The Power Cap cost increases seemed hella high when I implemented it, but long-term, just like these other numbers, the cost increases were too "flat" and needed to be more of a real exponential curve. With that in mind, I made these:

8000 OM is the default Powers Cap.
Tier 1 Powers Cap (12,000) – costs 2000 OM
Tier 2 Powers Cap (16,000) – costs +3000 OM (5000 OM total)
Tier 3 Powers Cap (20,000) – costs +5000 OM (10,000 OM total)
Tier 4 Powers Cap (24,000) – costs +8,000 OM (18,000 OM total)
Tier 5 Powers Cap (28,000) – costs +12,000 OM (30,000 OM total)
Tier 6 Powers Cap (32,000) – costs + 17,000 OM (47,000 OM total)
Tier 7 Powers Cap (36,000) – costs + 23,000 OM (60,000 OM total)
Remove Powers Cap – costs +30,000 OM (90,000 OM total)

For reference, 37,300 is the cost of all powers.

I believe a couple of people with the Tier 3 Powers Cap currently might lose 1000 OM, here, but not a big deal.

With these changes, you can expect to see some changes to alt unlock requirements as well (I actually worked on those first, then put that on hold until I was done here, for obvious reasons).

Since these are large balance changes and the level goalposts have never been moved before, I wanted to check that this isn't going to wildly upset anyone before I implement it, and give a "heads up" before I just drop it in updates.
Curious about me and the characters I play? See the 'Staff' page! See also the rosters for my characters Samus Aran or Enel if you'd like to see examples of well-formatted rosters. Hope you enjoy the Omniverse!
#2
If anyone's curious as to what the changes look like visually (in comparison to the old costs), I made a handy little graph!
(Red is old system, black is new. I didn't draw any lines; that's up to you.)

The change is bigger than one might think, initially, but is almost entirely for higher levels, where it basically plateaus. About level 8 is where anyone will start noticing the shift from fast-leveling to slower leveling when comparing the two. Anyone below level 9 won't notice much of a change. All in all, I rather like the changes.

Also, I think with powers the total cost for all of them is a bit deceptive. Powers are useful on their own in some cases, but in others, to use them to their fullest ability, you need a move that requires them. If you need a move or two to use, or combine, powers in a useful fashion, the total cost for all powers in practice is going to be higher than what's on paper. The nice thing about this system is that you can have all the powers and still be rather weak in battle, because you can't use them to their greatest effect like others can with far fewer. There's a few exceptions to that, such as the movement powers. Just a thought I had while reading. I don't disagree with the new curve as it is.
#3
I’m fine with these changes.

It is a little disapointing to be losing 1000 om but that’s not a huge deal in the long run.

Just hope 3rd character requirements don’t jump up to level 6, reaching 21,000 with Izzy alone feels insurmountable no less getting her to 25,000. But then again, her slow progress is entirely my fault, so yeah...


But anyways, these changes are all well reasoned and fair. You have my support on the matter.
[Image: MUsY55C.jpg][float=right][Image: sN7AejK.jpg][/float]
#4
If you reversed the axes on that graph, Jaixe, it'd be easier to see the curve going 'up'. I only say that because I'm curious myself of what it looks like, though you can sort of see by looking sideways.
Curious about me and the characters I play? See the 'Staff' page! See also the rosters for my characters Samus Aran or Enel if you'd like to see examples of well-formatted rosters. Hope you enjoy the Omniverse!
#5
(11-09-2017, 03:54 PM)Guu Wrote: I’m fine with these changes.

It is a little disapointing to be losing 1000 om but that’s not a huge deal in the long run.

Just hope 3rd character requirements don’t jump up to level 6, reaching 21,000 with Izzy alone feels insurmountable no less getting her to 25,000. But then again, her slow progress is entirely my fault, so yeah...


But anyways, these changes are all well reasoned and fair. You have my support on the matter.

My plans for alts going forward are to lower the overall requirements, but raise the switch cooldown for each character you have. Thus preventing your third slot from being, as Alex succinctly put it, a Merry-Go-Round slot. It's basically "yeah, okay, you can have more characters if you promise not to use them to make loads more work for us".

Trust me, I've been here four years and I feel I deserve the third character now Tongue But I'm still a few hundred OM away.

I have drafted out the new requirements but I'm not going to post them just yet, since my design team hasn't looked at them.
Curious about me and the characters I play? See the 'Staff' page! See also the rosters for my characters Samus Aran or Enel if you'd like to see examples of well-formatted rosters. Hope you enjoy the Omniverse!
#6
Seeing as you asked so nicely, here's your reverse graph.
#7
Tier 3 Transformations coming drastically earlier? Hell yeah! I demand Kaiju Guu now!

...

But now, on a more serious note; I really like the first and last parts... but honestly, I already thought the Stat-increase costs were pretty crazy, and the power-up ones downright absurd. I personally don't see the point in making them even more expensive when they're already over the top.
[Image: Hijiri_Name_Sig.png]
#8
I agree that most of this is probably better, and would work smoothly, but I do have two comments:

Firstly, is the initial level cap of NPC Primes going to change? Like to level 6? So, in other words, to get the T2 transformations and keep their rough OM about the same. Or are they going to drop to the new level 5?

Secondly:
Quote:8000 OM is the default Powers Cap.
Tier 1 Powers Cap (12,000) – costs 2000 OM
Tier 2 Powers Cap (16,000) – costs +3000 OM (5000 OM total)
Tier 3 Powers Cap (20,000) – costs +5000 OM (10,000 OM total)
Tier 4 Powers Cap (24,000) – costs +8,000 OM (18,000 OM total)
Tier 5 Powers Cap (28,000) – costs +12,000 OM (30,000 OM total)
Tier 6 Powers Cap (32,000) – costs + 17,000 OM (47,000 OM total)
Tier 7 Powers Cap (36,000) – costs + 23,000 OM (60,000 OM total)
Remove Powers Cap – costs +30,000 OM (90,000 OM total)

For reference, 37,300 is the cost of all powers.

I think this is a bit too steep, especially at the end. 30,000 extra OM just for a few extra powers, likely ones that probably wouldn't even make that much difference. Personally, I think there shouldn't be a Tier 7, and having it like:
[spoiler]
8000 OM is the default Powers Cap.
Tier 1 Powers Cap (12,000) – costs 2000 OM
Tier 2 Powers Cap (16,000) – costs +3000 OM (5000 OM total)
Tier 3 Powers Cap (20,000) – costs +5000 OM (10,000 OM total)
Tier 4 Powers Cap (24,000) – costs +8,000 OM (18,000 OM total)
Tier 5 Powers Cap (28,000) – costs +12,000 OM (30,000 OM total)
Tier 6 Powers Cap (32,000) – costs + 17,000 OM (47,000 OM total)
Remove Powers Cap – costs + 23,000 OM (60,000 OM total)

For reference, 37,300 is the cost of all powers.[/spoiler]
Would be steep enough, and should work fine. It's double the current max cap. I guess you could add an extra increase in the cost to removing the cap in my suggestion, since it does give you more potential powers than the others. 

I know it's meant to be a steep climb, and give really high OM players something to work for while stopping them getting too strong. But, unless you've got a lot more powers waiting to be added, it's kinda excessive. To the point that even if someone did have the OM to burn, I don't think many people would bother. Having a lot of powers tends to add versatility, and gaining the last bunch probably won't make someone a lot stronger.

As for the power-up increases and the stat increases, no one was really working for getting them higher than 5, or maybe 6 more stats (besides Belle who only buys stat upgrades), and possibly like 1 power-up increase. So now it's kinda like, well... whatever. I do think you didn't need to make it that excessive though. But I guess these do outright add solid strength, so that's fair.
#9
No extra powers are planned, but neither was Life Burn planned, which is why I'm building that contingency in. It would frankly be easier and less drama-causing to remove the final cap later than to add it on.

NPC Primes .... hadn't thought of that and I'll need to consider.
Curious about me and the characters I play? See the 'Staff' page! See also the rosters for my characters Samus Aran or Enel if you'd like to see examples of well-formatted rosters. Hope you enjoy the Omniverse!
#10
The heavy curve of growth is an easy idea to grasp, and I like the idea of quicker early levels, where you just enter and you do a lot of character development, then later levels being more along the line of working for those stats. It makes sense, since it is basically mirroring how things work in real life. I think the increase in Power-Up boosts is a bit extreme, but it makes sense if that is supposed to be where older characters really shine.

Also... Life Burn? o.O Was dis?
#11
(11-09-2017, 06:20 PM)Gunther Stein Wrote: The heavy curve of growth is an easy idea to grasp, and I like the idea of quicker early levels, where you just enter and you do a lot of character development, then later levels being more along the line of working for those stats. It makes sense, since it is basically mirroring how things work in real life. I think the increase in Power-Up boosts is a bit extreme, but it makes sense if that is supposed to be where older characters really shine.

Also... Life Burn? o.O Was dis?

You spend 5/4/3 health and gain 1 SP.
The soul of the Machine God surrounds thee. The power of the Machine God invests thee. The hate of the Machine God drives thee. The machine god endows thee with life. Live!

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#12
This all seems fine. I've been wondering more on the balance around how stats work. Specifically TEC and how it can be used offensively and defensively with telepathy and makes all stats better. I mean, all in all a character with 5 maxed TEC and other stats split between DEF and SPD always has the advantage over characters that choose to use ATK as their damage stat because of how stats work. This kind of thing would make more of a difference in DA style events that use stats more directly.
#13
Please keep it on-topic, there's a separate thing here for general rules feedback.
Curious about me and the characters I play? See the 'Staff' page! See also the rosters for my characters Samus Aran or Enel if you'd like to see examples of well-formatted rosters. Hope you enjoy the Omniverse!
#14
@Desco:
[spoiler]No. ATK is the only damage stat. TEC can help you do more damage by giving you more opportunities, and SPD can help you hit a bit faster, but will never make you hit harder. Having low ATK and good SPD/TEC is just gonna cause death by 1000 cuts.

What matters is how you write, how well your moves support your stats, and how well you use the stats you have. A 5 ATK, 5 DEF cannon with homing doesn't care if you can hit it, especially with your low ATK.

So, basically. Stats themselves don't matter. What matters is how you use them.[/spoiler]
Anyway, this doesn't seem to be related to this update. So it's better to ask that elsewhere, I think. If it really bothers you, write a help desk thread or something. Since it's be best not to clog up this topic.
#15
Old numbers, so that they can still be referenced after the update:

Quote:1 5000 (Starting OM, Tier 1 Super Moves Unlocked)
2 7000 (Tier 1 Assists and Transformations Unlocked!)
3 11,000
4 16,000 (Tier 2 Super Moves Unlocked!)
5 22,000 (Tier 2 Assists and Transformations Unlocked!)
6 29,000
7 37,000
8 46,000
9 56,000
10 67,000 (Tier 3 Super Moves Unlocked!)
11 79,000
12 92,000
13 106,000 (Tier 3 Assists and Transformations Unlocked!)
14 121,000
15 137,000
16 154,000
17 172,000
18 191,000
19 211,000
20 232,000

8000 OM is the default Powers Cap.
Tier 1 Powers Cap (12,000) – costs 2000 OM
Tier 2 Powers Cap (16,000) – costs +3000 OM (5000 OM total)
Tier 3 Powers Cap (20,000) – costs +4000 OM (9000 OM total)
Tier 4 Powers Cap (24,000) – costs +5000 OM (14,000 OM total)
Tier 5 Powers Cap (28,000) – costs +6000 OM (20,000 OM total)
Remove Powers Cap – costs +10,000 OM (30,000 OM total)

Stat Upgrade I 1000 OM
Stat Upgrade II 2000 OM (3000 total)
Stat Upgrade III 4000 OM (7000 total)
Stat Upgrade IV 8000 OM (15,000 total)
Stat Upgrade V 10,000 OM (25,000 total)
Stat Upgrade VI 12,000 OM (37,000 total)
Stat Upgrade VII 14,000 OM (51,000 total)
Stat Upgrade VIII 16,000 OM (67,000 total)
Stat Upgrade IX 18,000 OM (85,000 total)
Stat Upgrade X 20,000 OM (105,000 total)

Power-Up Boost I (+1/2/4) 10,000 OM
Power-Up Boost II (+2/4/8) 20,000 OM (30,000 total)
Power-Up Boost III (+3/6/12) 30,000 OM (60,000 total)
Power-Up Boost IV (+4/8/16) 40,000 OM (100,000 total)
Power-Up Boost V (+5/10/20) 50,000 OM (150,000 total)
Curious about me and the characters I play? See the 'Staff' page! See also the rosters for my characters Samus Aran or Enel if you'd like to see examples of well-formatted rosters. Hope you enjoy the Omniverse!
#16
Powers Caps/Stat Upgrades/Power Ups Boosts is all end-game nonsense that should be expensive, so I like the proposed values for all those things.

And hey, I think the Stat Upgrades are still more pleasant than the original values from pre-2015 #i'mold


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