poisons question

[Violet]

So, hey, question. What if I had a little poisons kit attached to my belt, would I have to make a move for that? The poison kit (I already have a poisons proficiency...or toxins. something like that) would be like, a pouch attached to the belt itself (like a gun ammo pouch) with little vials of poison and cloths for application, and various little tools.

[Ganondorf]

If you want to use them in combat, then yes. You'd need a move for each different poison. Against NPCs or in roleplays? Probably be fine without it. I would suggest you make sure you have the Toxin Power.

[Violet]

I am pretty sure I do.
I've got to come up with the different poisons. I am wanting to keep most, if not all, of the powers that I give Garona true to her class, and rogue class has like, six different poisons. Not sure how well all of those would translate over to here, but I want to have at least two or three utility poisons on hand.

[Ganondorf]

Well, if you want them to affect your opponent in ways other than damage, you'll need the appropriate Proficiencies and Powers for them. If you post a description of what you want your poison to do in the Moves Approval thread then Greg or myself can either give you a price for them and the proficiencies and powers them, or help you tweak them to work in the system.

[Violet]

(written while you were posting)

Oh, also, if I post up moves or the poisons, or whatever for the price, I do not have to buy them right then, if I am just looking for approval/pricing, right? I can just get a price and then officially buy it later when I want, right?

[Ganondorf]

Yes.

[Violet]

This is mostly formulating, but I would like feedback/pricing for future reference.

I want to keep consistent to the rogue class's poisons (as Garona is essentially a rogue) for my character's poison (toxic element and damage over time proficiencies), and want to see what would work in this game. I am not sure if I want to break it down further to classify them as "lethal" or "non-lethal" poisons as it does in-game. That's a whole other facet that I do not think this one is capable of accommodating.


Crippling Poison: Coats a weapon with a poison that has a 50% chance of slowing an enemy's movements for a few seconds. Good for high movement fights where a few seconds can mean a matter of life and death, or escape from a dangerous situation where putting space between you and your target is important. (Great against melee and casters)

Mind-Numbing Poison: (Caster oriented) Coats a weapon with a poison that has a 50% chance of poisoning the target and slowing their casting speeds by 25-50% (player target/non-player targets, respectively). In this game, the effects are essentially the affected target takes longer to cast their move if they are energy manipulators, and is similar to the crippling poison, but doesn't affect movement.

Paralytic Poison: Coats a weapon with a poison that has a 25% chance to stun the target for a few seconds (incapacitating them from movement or attacks very briefly, and if it hits in the middle of a target's attack, can interrupt them)

Leeching Poison: Coats a weapon with a poison that has a chance to deal a small amount of damage to the target, and converting that damage into a small amount of healing to the attacker. (this might need the healing proficiency, which is understandable. However, it is only a minute amount of healing and lasts a very short time. The purpose is to keep up her stamina long enough to survive an intensive fight.)

Deadly Poison: Coats the weapon with a poison that has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy and applying a damage-over-time debuff that lasts for approximately 12 seconds. The affect of the damage over time debuff can be portrayed as a general weaking of the target over that time and forcing them to concentrate more on their attacks than while the debuff is not active.

Wound Poison: Has a chance to apply a debuff to the target that deals a small amount of damage over time and reduces healing effects on them for 15 seconds.


I am not sure exactly how these translate over to this game, but I tried to pare them down a bit with my best guess. Corrections/suggestions welcome.

Edit: She'll most likely need to scavenge for materials wherever she ends up to make new supplies of the poisons, so they are exhaustible and she can be caught without the poisons if she hadn't made a new batch after a certain amount of time.

[Omni]

If I remember, most of the poisons in WoW are pretty gamey (it is, after all, an MMO, the least immersive type of game in existence) so I'd try to adapt them to real effects like 'makes the target disoriented/hallucinate' or sick or other stuff rather than 'increases armor piercing by 23.2 because ... Reasons' and 'makes target take more damage because ... Reasons'. Make it make actual IC sense.

[Omni]

First of, all the percentage based stuff is a no-go, because it makes no sense outside of the context of a videogame =P

The effectiveness of a poison could be seen as how long it lasts, how much it harms the target, how much it debilitates them, and any other effects. Obviously you'll need proficiencies for some of those poisons, and you're right that you'll need either Healing or Regeneration for Leeching Poison, and it will be only heal trivial damage without expending SP. You'll need to define these attributes for each poison, preferably in a way that gives IC flavour. I'd recommend you specify that a deeper cut needs to be acheived for full effectiveness, obviously it's gonna be hard to poison armored characters, and you'll need downsides like each poison can only be used once between foraging (so once per fight, basically). As always, the power of the move will be connected to how difficult it is to successfully pull off, or other downsides.

[Violet]

First of, all the percentage based stuff is a no-go, because it makes no sense outside of the context of a videogame =P

The effectiveness of a poison could be seen as how long it lasts, how much it harms the target, how much it debilitates them, and any other effects. Obviously you'll need proficiencies for some of those poisons, and you're right that you'll need either Healing or Regeneration for Leeching Poison, and it will be only heal trivial damage without expending SP. You'll need to define these attributes for each poison, preferably in a way that gives IC flavour. I'd recommend you specify that a deeper cut needs to be acheived for full effectiveness, obviously it's gonna be hard to poison armored characters, and you'll need downsides like each poison can only be used once between foraging (so once per fight, basically). As always, the power of the move will be connected to how difficult it is to successfully pull off, or other downsides.

Here's a rework of the poisons, and I also am throwing in two other moves that I would like to be reviewed and priced, if possible.

Poisons

All of the poisons require skin or bloodstream contact. Usually a nick the size of a papercut or through the first layer of skin is enough for the poison to take. Sometimes, the target has a higher resistance than some to the poison, so more cuts infected with the poison are required in order to affect the victim. Once in a victim’s system, the poisons last approximately 10-15 seconds, depending on how fast it is metabolized.

All of these poisons will use the Toxin element, and some with the damage-over-time proficiency.

Crippling Poison
Prerequisites: Disable Proficiency

Coats a weapon with a poison that has chance of slowing an enemy's movements. The effect makes the target sluggish with their movements. Good for high movement fights where a few seconds can mean a matter of life and death, or escape from a dangerous situation where putting space between you and your target is important. (Great against melee and casters)

Mind-Numbing Poison
Prerequisites: Disable Proficiency (and/or Impair proficiency)

Coats a weapon with a poison that has a chance of poisoning the target and slowing their casting speeds. This poison works best with targets who work with different varieties of magic. It is very similar to crippling poison, but has little to no effect on melee fighters.


Paralytic Poison
Prerequisites: Disable Proficiency, Impair Proficiency

Coats a weapon with a poison that has a chance to stun the target for a few seconds, incapacitating them from movement or attacks very briefly, and if it hits in the middle of a target's attack, can interrupt their attack. The effect causes the victim to be very sluggish for the more resistant targets, and weaker ones are paralyzed very briefly, and then as the poison is metabolized, they resume movement slowly over the course of a few more seconds until they are back to normal speed.


Leeching Poison
Prerequisites: Healing Proficiency, Damage-over-time Proficiency

Coats a weapon with a poison that has a chance to deal a small amount of damage to the target, and converting that damage into a small amount of healing to the attacker. Small cuts cause pain and bleeding to the victim, very much like paper cuts or cat claw scratches, with minimal blood loss.

Deadly Poison
Prerequisites: Damage-Over-Time Proficiency, Impair Proficiency

Coats the weapon with a poison that has a chance of poisoning the enemy and causing damage over a short period of time (usually about 10-15 seconds before it is metabolized and wears off).The effect can be portrayed as a general weakening of the target and forcing them to concentrate more on their attacks.

Wound Poison
Prerequisites: Damage-Over-Time, ?

Has a chance to apply a debuff to the target that deals a small amount of damage over time and reduces healing effects on them for 15 seconds.



Killing Spree
Prerequisites: Damage-Over-Time, Burst Movement?

Garona launches herself at the target and makes a series of quick slashes that causes several cuts, and can confuse the victim. The number of slashes varies depending on her stamina. When she's tired, she can usually do about three or four. When she's energized, the amount can double. This move also makes her poisons more likely to take effect, as there are more cuts and skin/blood contact. This move is used as part of a "last ditch" effort to finish a target, as it is very draining energy-wise.

Shadowstep
Prerequisites: Stealth Proficiency, Burst movement

Shadowstep is used while stealthed. Wrapping herself in a veil of shadow, Garona capitalizes on the fluidity of the element to briefly multiply her speed so that she can quickly appear behind the target and launch an attack before the victim can normally respond.

Sap
Prerequisites: Stealth Proficiency, Disable Proficiency

Used in stealth, Garona bonks the victim in the head, temporarily disabling them. The length of the stun can vary. Against NPC's, it can last up to a minute, whereas player characters can last up to 15 seconds, depending on how much higher their defense is. When their defense stat is twice as much as Garona's, the stun lasts only about five seconds. She can use the move repeatedly, but subsequent applications greatly reduce the duration, and after three applications, the stun only lasts about one second. After five, the victim is unaffected. While in stealth, Garona runs the risk of being seen out of a victim's peripheral vision, and thus, can break her stealth, and ruin her attempt to stun.

[Omni]

So sometimes the poisons just ... don't work? That's fine, as long as it makes sense for you IC. That's what I was confused about before. I guess it's already kind of mystical since one of the 'poisons' heals you =P

For Mind-Numbing Poison it sounds like it suits Impair more than Disable proficiency. It slows their mind rather than their physical movements, right? So they can still move around at full speed, it just makes their thoughts sluggish and thus slower to cast. You could adapt that as a general thing, make it so that it just makes it generally more difficult to concentrate/hit. But if you want to keep as is, that's fine.

Wound Poison just needs DoT Prof.

All poisons are 300 OM.

Killing Spree - 600 OM. Burst movement not required unless you want it to be incorporated into the move.

Shadowstep 300 OM. I'm assuming it's just quick movement, not an actual teleport like in WoW (in which case you need Teleportation, obvs)

Sap I'd recommend a change to the following:

"Sap
Prerequisites: Stealth Proficiency, Disable Proficiency

If Garona can successfully bonk her victim in the head, this disables them for a varying length of time. Against weaker characters like secondaries, it can last up to a minute, whereas player characters can last up to 15 seconds, depending on how much higher their defense is. When their defense stat is twice as much as Garona's, the stun lasts only about five seconds. The target simply exists in a daze while the stun is in effect, mind blanked, but they can be shocked out of it for example by pain."

This gives a little bit of flavour for the target and allows them to be shocked out of it by allies, and it also means that it'll break once you start attacking (obviously you'll be able to follow up, but it means you won't be able to spend fifteen seconds ripping open their armor with them completely unable to defend themselves). On the flipside, it doesn't deteriorate with repeated use (doesn't make that much sense IC, and I don't think it's necessary with these restrictions). As for stealth, it's total invisibility so you can't be seen in their peripherals (yay! see the full description for the caveats).

If that's okay, 300 OM. The only thing I'm outright not okay with in the original description is being stunned for fifteen seconds and doesn't break on damage or anything. That'd need like, a big chargeup.

[Violet]

So sometimes the poisons just ... don't work? That's fine, as long as it makes sense for you IC. That's what I was confused about before. I guess it's already kind of mystical since one of the 'poisons' heals you =P

I think it would be a little OP if every time I cut someone they get poisoned. I figured it'd be a nice way to give it a drawback and keep it sort of controlled.

For Mind-Numbing Poison it sounds like it suits Impair more than Disable proficiency. It slows their mind rather than their physical movements, right? So they can still move around at full speed, it just makes their thoughts sluggish and thus slower to cast. You could adapt that as a general thing, make it so that it just makes it generally more difficult to concentrate/hit. But if you want to keep as is, that's fine.

Yeah. It just impairs the mind, not the physical movement. What do you mean, like, just have it impair the mind of all sorts of targets, not just non-melee? That makes sense. One poison for the physical impairment, one for mental impairment. That could work, perhaps even better than my idea. I'll take it.

Wound Poison just needs DoT Prof.

All poisons are 300 OM.

Seems a little high, but okay. I would have said around the 150-200 range. *shrug*

Killing Spree - 600 OM. Burst movement not required unless you want it to be incorporated into the move.

Perhaps after I get burst movement, it would warrant an improved version of this move.

Shadowstep 300 OM. I'm assuming it's just quick movement, not an actual teleport like in WoW (in which case you need Teleportation, obvs)

Again, I would probably make an upgraded version after I get that ability, but yeah, it's a very quick movement.

Sap I'd recommend a change to the following:

"Sap
Prerequisites: Stealth Proficiency, Disable Proficiency

If Garona can successfully bonk her victim in the head, this disables them for a varying length of time. Against weaker characters like secondaries, it can last up to a minute, whereas player characters can last up to 15 seconds, depending on how much higher their defense is. When their defense stat is twice as much as Garona's, the stun lasts only about five seconds. The target simply exists in a daze while the stun is in effect, mind blanked, but they can be shocked out of it for example by pain."

This gives a little bit of flavour for the target and allows them to be shocked out of it by allies, and it also means that it'll break once you start attacking (obviously you'll be able to follow up, but it means you won't be able to spend fifteen seconds ripping open their armor with them completely unable to defend themselves). On the flipside, it doesn't deteriorate with repeated use (doesn't make that much sense IC, and I don't think it's necessary with these restrictions). As for stealth, it's total invisibility so you can't be seen in their peripherals (yay! see the full description for the caveats).

If that's okay, 300 OM. The only thing I'm outright not okay with in the original description is being stunned for fifteen seconds and doesn't break on damage or anything. That'd need like, a big chargeup.

Makes sense. Thanks for the feedback.