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+--- Thread: Summoning and Frame of Reference (/showthread.php?tid=885)
Summoning and Frame of Reference - Dark Link - 02-05-2015
I have a question related to Summoning. According to the rules, a Prime can summon anything they can visualise in their mind. So I'm assuming that, as long as they've seen or can imagine the object they desire, they can summon it. But what would happen if the summoner lacked the frame of reference regarding some of the object's qualities or functions?
For example, let's say a Prime wanted to summon a machine. I'm presuming that, for the sake of simplicity, a Prime doesn't need to be familiar with the inner workings of a machine in order to summon and use it. But let's say the Prime only saw the machine before when it was non-functional/deactivated; they know how it looks like, but not how it functions or even what its functionality is. If the Prime (for whatever reason) summoned it, would it work normally or would it just be a static, non-functional object due to the fact that the Prime has never seen what it does/how it functions?
Here's another example and this one is the reason why I'm asking this in the first place. Let's say a Prime wants to summon food. However, they've never actually eaten that type of food before, but have only seen it in a picture. If they summoned it and took a bite, would it taste normally? Or would it essentially be tasteless (or, at best, would taste how the Prime imagines it would taste) because the Prime has never actually tasted that type of food before?
Re: Summoning and Frame of Reference - Atelos - 02-05-2015
Summoning relies on the Primes mind so it all depends on the user. If the Prime hasn't seen the machine(in your example) in its working condition then he couldn't summon it in its pristine condition. In order to summon something in its normal condition he must see it in its working condition somewhere or else it will act like the Prime had imagined it, the food example meaning it would taste like he imagined
Re: Summoning and Frame of Reference - Proto Man - 02-05-2015
I don't know if I agree with your logic, Atelos. I feel like it's not necessary to know the ins and outs of an object you summon. As long as you have the basic idea, the omnilium provides the rest.
I mean, when strong primes summoned settlements in the past, secondaries were created in the process but not necessarily purposefully made. By the same logic, Proto Man can summon a Chocobo without having the slightest idea of its biology and physiology, and someone from Ancient Greece could theoretically summon a laser machine gun without needing to read a manual about it.
Re: Summoning and Frame of Reference - Ganondorf - 02-05-2015
I think Atelos was just saying that in the case of things from outside your understanding it would operate the way you think it does. In the case of a Laser Gun summoned by an ancient greek, if he only knew what it looked like, he could still summon it. But it might shoot lasers.... or javelins, or fish.
Basically, it ties into the ability for OM to "break the rules". If you had no clue, and no imagination, as to an object's function, I'd rule that it simply doesn't operate at all. As per the rules, you need to be able to visualize an object to summon it. And while you may not need an extensive understanding of it, you do need to know enough about it that it could sufficiently replicate its function.
Tying into your Chocobo thing, if you'd never seen a Chocobo before on any medium, than how it operates would have been drawn from your imagination. If Proto Man thought Chocobos could, say, fart rainbows, then when he summoned his, it would be able to do that.
And if you could, theoretically, add abilities to something, there's no reason why abilities wouldn't be absent from something if you didn't visualize it as having them.
Re: Summoning and Frame of Reference - Proto Man - 02-05-2015
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a very nice spin to put on things and could make for some interesting writing if that was something that interested someone. I just don't think it should be enforced as some sort of rule, that's all.
And Salsa doesn't fart rainbows. That's silly. His insides are obviously cotton candy.