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+--- Thread: Regeneration of SP (/showthread.php?tid=5920)
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Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-02-2017
Probably not allowed and has already been answered, but....
Would it be possible for Regeneration (Basic or Advanced) and/or Healing (in conjunction with a Move) to restore SP? Obviously it would require more HP to regain SP than the opposite (so Regenerators couldn't abuse), and you wouldn't be able to Regen past your Character Level Limit. But is it theoretically possible to do, in a style of a character burning their life force to exceed their limits and whatnot?
RE: Regeneration of SP - Alex - 05-02-2017
As far as I'm aware: No.
(as an aside, i don't think sacrificing HP to make SP would rationally need Regen or Healing?)
If Greg has something swirling in his head, I implore him to share.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-02-2017
Maybe not. But since Regen is the defacto "spend one resource to increase another" Power, I used it as the baseline.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Omni - 05-02-2017
I'm gonna say no, there are too many issues regarding scaling that weird it up.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-02-2017
Well, HP is static (for now), so in some regards it's far more limited than SP anyway.
I assume scaling would work like Regeneration or Healing, but with greater detriment for less reward. For example, level 1 being spending 2 HP for 1 SP and multiplying up to level 3 and 6 HP for 3 SP.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-02-2017
Perhaps introducing a Power similar to Regeneration called Life-Burn or something? That could restrict it heavily enough to keep people from abusing it, right?
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-02-2017
Alternative idea: Life-Burn allows a character to spend HP instead of SP to use Super Moves, Power-Ups, and other SP reliant abilities, at a heightened cost of double or more.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Amaterasu - 05-03-2017
The can of worms that I see with the HP for SP trade would be the potential abuse that would have to be balanced: in fights, damage does not give you penalty points, but spent SP gives you bonuses. Assuming that no balancing methods are implemented on either "end" of this, a user could burn SP on a Power-Up + Super Move, then damage themselves to regenerate the SP and spend them again. A high-level character with T3s could accumulate a lot of bonus points that way.
Balancing could be done maybe by capping the bonus points in a fight to [points] x [user's level]? So a level 5 character could only get up to 5 bonus points, as they have 5 SP. If they regenerate some to throw more Super Moves than 5 SP would get them, it's counted as fluff.
RE: Regeneration of SP - The Vision - 05-03-2017
What about Elixirs? They're Consumables that give SP.
But if it's a Power you need I'd agree with Ammy about the cap, or more simply, limits on how many times you can use this power. Like, you can only use Recharge three times or something.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Omni - 05-03-2017
It would be a real can of worms to open, because it would basically allow you to go beyond your normal level and then we'd have to think about that when balancing costs. Furthermore, since Healing scales, giving more Damage per SP as your Defense increases, it introduces a scaling problem where you'd paradoxically have to increase the HP cost to keep it balanced with Healing, or else create an ability that's much more useful for lower levels than it is higher levels.
At the end of the day, we'd probably have to have it so limited that it would be more detrimental than beneficial to even use it in the first place.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-03-2017
(05-03-2017, 03:37 AM)Amaterasu Wrote: The can of worms that I see with the HP for SP trade would be the potential abuse that would have to be balanced: in fights, damage does not give you penalty points, but spent SP gives you bonuses. Assuming that no balancing methods are implemented on either "end" of this, a user could burn SP on a Power-Up + Super Move, then damage themselves to regenerate the SP and spend them again. A high-level character with T3s could accumulate a lot of bonus points that way.
Balancing could be done maybe by capping the bonus points in a fight to [points] x [user's level]? So a level 5 character could only get up to 5 bonus points, as they have 5 SP. If they regenerate some to throw more Super Moves than 5 SP would get them, it's counted as fluff.
Even at the double HP cost per SP gained, using Tier 3s will probably kill you in your example. 1 Round of T3 Power-Up costs 6 SP, which would burn 12 HP. With a cap of 20 HP, you do literally only do that once. At lower levels of Power-Ups and Super Moves, it becomes more viable for sure (allowing one to maintain a T1 Power-Up through 3 rounds of a fight for 12 HP). But we would certainly need to make lost HP an actual detriment in a fight for sure. At the moment, HP loss only really seems to come up during large scale storylines, which makes me agree that, for now, it'd be an unbalanced Power.
(05-03-2017, 06:10 AM)The Vision Wrote: What about Elixirs? They're Consumables that give SP.
But if it's a Power you need I'd agree with Ammy about the cap, or more simply, limits on how many times you can use this power. Like, you can only use Recharge three times or something.
This is true. But in the same vein of their being items which act like Power-Ups and the Regeneration Power, I felt there could be a Power that would replicate the effects of a Item, obviously at some cost.
(05-03-2017, 08:07 AM)Omni Wrote: It would be a real can of worms to open, because it would basically allow you to go beyond your normal level and then we'd have to think about that when balancing costs. Furthermore, since Healing scales, giving more Damage per SP as your Defense increases, it introduces a scaling problem where you'd paradoxically have to increase the HP cost to keep it balanced with Healing, or else create an ability that's much more useful for lower levels than it is higher levels.
At the end of the day, we'd probably have to have it so limited that it would be more detrimental than beneficial to even use it in the first place.
Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad to keep it as a Power that helps out more during lower-levels? You've always said that this system was designed so even a level 1 character could theoretically beat, say, Proto Man, with enough skill. With SP spent adding points to a grading, those at a higher level have a significant advantage over those at a lower level. For example, a level 27 character could, theoretically use a Tier 3 Power-Up and a Tier 3 Super Move every Round and add 27 points to their score (assuming SP spent equals 1 point added to score). Even assuming the level 1 character pulls off some Stephen King level writing and the level 27 writes 1 word a post, it'd be an impossible gap to surpass.
SP is one of the weirder things to work in mechanics for, because unlike everything else, it actually improves as you Level Up (not really counting simply unlocking new abilities here or things you spend OM on, just passive increases in power). Putting limits on how much you can regain based on character-level would be one way of skewing it back towards the higher level characters. At the same time, eventually the power would become useless to the high level character anyway, as his or her SP begins to exceed the amount they could possibly expend in a standard combat. My suggestion would be to just make Damage actually matter in a fight. Even if this Power never gets approved, it'll still be a good thing to do to allow a string of low-level folks to slowly wear down a massive threat.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Trixie - 05-03-2017
Why can't it regenerate 1 per post you don't use SP? Capped at your SP cap. It would add an element of strategy to long term fights.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-03-2017
I'm less concerned about actually regenerating SP and more about implementing something that has multiple incarnations across various media: exceeding your limits by putting strain on your body. SP regeneration happens to fit well within the rules we already have for this effect.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Trixie - 05-04-2017
Then tag an SP cost to temporarily increasing a stat with the buff proficiency to yourself. A Super Move that allows for a temporarily gain, but at a hefty cost.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-04-2017
Well, yes. That is the traditional way of going about it. Using SP via Power-Ups. But that doesn't "put a strain" on your body. Think Kaio-Ken, or a similar ability from other media. Where a person actually injures themselves to increase their power.
Edit: Which is why I put out the second proposal of "spending" HP instead of SP to activate SP-related abilities, rather than regenerating SP via hurting yourself.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Trixie - 05-04-2017
So instead of using the buff proficiency, which we can call the "safe" method of straining yourself. Use the Debuff proficiency. The Super Move increases one stat, by say 2, and then for the next 3 rounds all of your stats are at -1.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-04-2017
I'm not exactly sure if that's even allowed via the rules. From my recollection, Buff proficiency only helps other folks. And stats can only be improved via spending OM (Items, Permanent Increases), or by utilizing SP (Power-Ups, Fusion). Likewise, I don't think you can work this via a Debuff route. The rules as they currently are just don't really support injuring yourself to fuel abilities. Which is why I'm suggesting a Power which would fill the gap.
Lifeburn, Basic(1000 OM): Allows character to expend HP to utilize SP dependent abilities. Cost is 5 HP per 1 SP required by ability.
Lifeburn, Master(+1500 OM): Cost reduced to 3 HP per 1 SP require by ability.
Or some such.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Trixie - 05-04-2017
You can even burn OM if you don't want to burn HP. OM isn't calculated automatically like Chubbs, so subtracting an amount to spend for an SP would be easy. Except the price would be higher, something like 100 per 1 SP. Since Omnilium is life, you can call it the same.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Handsome Jack - 05-04-2017
Elixir – 250 OM (may carry up to four in a single slot)
Usually sold in see-through bottles made to show off the substance's pretty blue glow, Elixirs restore the spiritual energy of casters. May be roleplayed as spare ammunition or anything else if you wish. Restores 1 SP.
RE: Regeneration of SP - Tearen Wover - 05-04-2017
Well, maybe this could fall under the purview of 'endgame content'. For example there could be 'God Powers' like that Lifeburn thing that could only be accessed at a certain level after Tier 3 power ups.
There's a bit of precedent for this, with the power-up boosters that Omni introduced recently. It would nice to have carrots to walk towards after Lvl 12 or whatever.