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+--- Thread: Super Debuff Move Questions (/showthread.php?tid=5653)
Super Debuff Move Questions - Crocodile - 01-11-2017
A Buff Super Move adds stats; would a Debuff Super Move reduce stats in the same way?
RE: Quick Questions II - Amaterasu - 01-11-2017
(01-11-2017, 02:29 PM)Usopp Wrote: A Buff Super Move adds stats; would a Debuff Super Move reduce stats in the same way?
Definitely not directly, since a T2 Super Debuff move could technically reduce a Prime's stats to zero, and a T3 could bring them to -10. But I believe that there was someone who made a Super Utility Move that cancels a Power-Up.
RE: Quick Questions II - Crocodile - 01-11-2017
Hmm... this is something to consider...
RE: Quick Questions II - ElFailzalot - 01-11-2017
(01-11-2017, 02:40 PM)Amaterasu Wrote:(01-11-2017, 02:29 PM)Usopp Wrote: A Buff Super Move adds stats; would a Debuff Super Move reduce stats in the same way?
Definitely not directly, since a T2 Super Debuff move could technically reduce a Prime's stats to zero, and a T3 could bring them to -10. But I believe that there was someone who made a Super Utility Move that cancels a Power-Up.
Just to clarify this out here, super move buffs don't grant stat increases at the same rate as power-ups do. As said right here:
General FAQ Wrote:Q20: Moves that boost my stats, or my allies' stats. How do?
A: Moves that increase your own stats are governed by Transformations. You can create a move that increases the stats of an ally, or several people, with the Buff Proficiency. You can give minor boosts with regular moves. By using a Super Move, you can grant +3 stats to one person per turn with 1 SP, or spread those stats between several people. You cannot boost your own stats except with Transformations.
Ergo, extrapolating it out, we get to something along these lines:
Power Ups: 5/10/20 stat points
Super Buffs: 3/6/9 stat points
Now, applying that to debuffing actual stats, it gets a little trickier. Obviously, 3/6/9 stat points suddenly lost is a hell of a hit, even if it is something that's allowed, but it would never be possible to reduce someone's stats all the way to 0. As things stand there's no precedent for it, and it isn't...really something that I see ever really being strictly necessary, especially in lieu of the aforementioned power-up negating super move idea already worked out.
But such things are often tricky to ponder over until they're ironed out and nailed down.
RE: Quick Questions II - Crocodile - 01-11-2017
0 is just the "below average" rank. I don't see why you couldn't drop a stat that low, considering you can start with 0s in up to two stats.
But this is also something to consider. Weakening his opponents is more in line with Usopp than powering himself up anyway.
RE: Super Debuff Move Questions - ElFailzalot - 01-11-2017
Split off into its own thread to keep the clutter down.
I more meant 'all the way to 0' along the lines of 'every stat being 0'. Since technically, with a T3 Debuff Super Move following those rules you could drop someone down to 0 in three stats and only 1 in another stat, hence never being completely down to 0.
But yes, weakening your opponents is a very viable thing to do.
RE: Quick Questions II - Amaterasu - 01-11-2017
(01-11-2017, 03:02 PM)Usopp Wrote: 0 is just the "below average" rank. I don't see why you couldn't drop a stat that low, considering you can start with 0s in up to two stats.
But this is also something to consider. Weakening his opponents is more in line with Usopp than powering himself up anyway.
The step from 10 to 7 stat points is much greater than the step from 10 to 13 stats though, percentually speaking. And the impact of it is likely to be larger.
One thing that I cannot promise would be approvable could be that Usopp uses some sort of long-lasting debuff that makes it seem like he is more powerful, when in actuality his opponents are slightly weaker, though it's still translated as Usopp gaining stats?
(so for instance he has higher DEF, but it's explained by that the debuff makes his opponents' attacks weaker)
RE: Super Debuff Move Questions - Crocodile - 01-11-2017
You could. You'd also be burning 6 SP a round keeping it up, and a T2 Power -Up on the target's would effectively negate that. If you use both the Power-Up canceling one and the Debuff one, you'll be burning closer to 10 a round to keep your opponent weak. Which'll practically leave you defenseless against a Super Move. Seems pretty self-balancing.
RE: Super Debuff Move Questions - Yukki Kazuto - 01-11-2017
You also should remember though, the move would most likely have to target specific stats, and it's possible that they end up wasting some stat deductions on stats the opponent already is low in. (If the move removes 3 ATK and opponent only has 2 for instance, taking them down to 0 and wasting the extra one)