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Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-05-2017
If you have suggestions, not questions, feedback on the rules and systems, here's a big megatopic to put it in.
Please bear in mind! The game design side of the site is all done by one person for the most part, me. And I have a life and stuff. So while I'll probably be reading this topic, I won't necessarily reply to all suggestions and feedback, whether positive or negative. This is just a place to put all your feedback, if you have it. I may also occasionally ask for feedback on specific things through the Updates topic.
This is just for core rules, things on the rules page. I recommend for other stuff, like storylines, quests, and other in-world stuff, going to specific threads or going to specific people who're in charge of those things. This is basically just for me. I also recommend (whether to me or to others) utilising a degree of tact, since we're all humans with limited time and resources, and not everything we make is perfect!
RE: Rules Feedback - Ebonywood Hellscythe - 11-05-2017
One thing I have noticed is that often some of the example moves might not make it through approval on the first time. That's less true now that you've added the assumptions at the top (as per the last update), but for something like:
Quote:Frostfire (requires Ranged Proficiency, Debuff Proficiency) – 300 OM
Sub-Zero charges up for a moment, then fires a super-cold ball of energy at his opponent. It hurts, and can temporarily immobilize a hand or leg, leaving an opponent open to a follow-up combination.
I can easily see questions being asked. Like, how long is a moment? 1 second? 2? Half a second?
How long does the debuff last? Temporarily is vague, and could mean a few seconds, or a few minutes.
How fast does the ball travel?
How big is the ball?
In my mind, I picture it heading about as fast as you could throw a tennis ball, having a charge time of a second, being fist-sized, and only lasting just long enough for the person who used the move to follow up with an attack - so maybe 3 to 5 seconds or so.
But, the creator of it could have intended something completely different.
In short, I think it's worth going through them at some stage and considering whether or not they'd actually be approved now. And, if not, fix/replace/remove them.
RE: Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-05-2017
Yeah, some of those examples could do with another pass. Or being literally approved by mods rather than me just trying to write a bunch.
I updated a small section of the moves writing parts:
"Can the user move around or do other things while using/charging the move, or must they be stationary? We will assume that movement will be slowed down to about half of normal running speed, but not stopped, unless otherwise stated while using a move."
Now that that part has an "unless otherwise stated", we shouldn't need to be so anal for it. I think that fits for most things, tbh.
RE: Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-05-2017
Fixed up Frostfire.
RE: Rules Feedback - Gaston - 11-05-2017
Personally agree that it's a second or less, but think it should be clarified. However, maybe instead of making them specify, add another assumption for how long a moment is. Something like, "if not otherwise specified, a moment is about a second," or something like that.
RE: Rules Feedback - Ebonywood Hellscythe - 11-08-2017
It's good that you fixed up the fight example, but I think you missed something small:
Quote:Each character is level 4, meaning they have 4 SP to spend on Super Moves and Transformations
Yet
Quote:(OOC: Used Tier 2 Power-Up: Hypermode for one post - 2 SP. 1/4 SP remaining)
Here, Samus uses a Tier 2 Power-Up, which costs 2 SP per post. While more powerful and dramatic, the increased cost means she could only use it for one post. The turn now passes to Alundra, who has 48 hours to post or request a time extension.
And T2 Power-Ups aren't available until level 5. So there's a slight inconsistency here.
(Sorry if this is too nitpicky).
Also, as another note, Regeneration seems to be stronger than super defences, since it restores 3 HP for 1sp, whereas they block ~2 damage for 1sp. I'm just wondering what the reasoning on that was, since ~3 damage per tier of super move seems fine to me. I guess it does fit with how injuries are ranked.
I would agree that 1 sp for 3 health is a good exchange rate for healing (and the new power). But super attacks seem a bit... weak in comparison. I know in most cases it's usually not going to matter and will come down to the judging, but I feel there should be some kind of benefit, or at least equality, in using a super defence to block a super attack, instead of just healing with regen after.
Although I guess those comments do feel kind of gamey, since this is more about the writing. I just think 3 damage would be more appropriate to be consistent with everything else.
RE: Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-08-2017
Examples nitpick: Fuckdammit! I may just ignore this since it still makes sense.
I'm aware of that little weird thing with Healing now healing more than the average Super Attack deals. Thinking about nerfing it back down to 2 damage healed for 1 SP, but I need to mull it over. There are cases for keeping it as is, and cases for boosting Super Attack damage back up to 3 per tier. There is one fairly big change in the pipeline that may affect all this, that I'm waiting for feedback from my design team from before I implement. Those changes may well end up changing those numbers, too. For now, I'll shut up.
RE: Rules Feedback - Alex - 11-08-2017
Could also argue that it costs 800 to buy a Super Defense to block 2 damage but 3 thousand to be able to heal?
In my head, I figured that was what the logic was?
RE: Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-08-2017
Frankly, my reasoning was that that's what the numbers used to be, and they're nice and simple. Higher than that, and it becomes fairly easy for high levels to nuke low levels with Super Attacks, forcing us to fudge the numbers.
But .... that may not be as big of a deal soon. It does feel more dynamic for Super Attacks to deal major damage, so in all likelihood I'd boost them up to 3 baseline damage per tier.
In no way was pricing a factor in the balancing. People are gonna want healing and regen, I feel, more because it's such an iconic power with such a range of in-world uses. It's irreplacable, and I feel it should definitely be costly. Plus, most folks want several Super Moves, and those prices add up to a lot.
RE: Rules Feedback - Ebonywood Hellscythe - 11-08-2017
@Alex: That's fair, but regen would work for T1, T2, and T3 attacks. So for that versitality it would add up to 600 + 800 + 1000 = 2400 OM. And advanced regan is 2200 OM. Admittedly, no one is really going to be getting and using T3 defenses because we don't have that many high levels, so really it works out closer to 1400 OM vs 2200 OM. Which is still closer that you made it sound. (And regen does heal an extra hit point compared to the standard 2 damage per sp, and could be used to negate the damage from a T3 super even if you're only level 3).
RE: Rules Feedback - Alex - 11-08-2017
@Ebony - Like I said, just the way I rationale'd it in my head from a member perspective. I didn't pick the price, so you don't have to hit me with numbers =p I trust Greg to do that stuff in his head.
RE: Rules Feedback - Handsome Jack - 11-08-2017
You also need to account for time. Both IC and OOC. 2200 OM is a lot to drop on a Power all at once... but 600? Easy. Then over the next 4 levels, setting aside another 800 is again easier than dropping 2200 all at once.
IC, you can only use Regen/Healing at the end of your post. You drop a Super Defense as soon as you get targetted by an attack. A Defence is also effective when you're at full health, whereas Regen is not. You have to take a hit before you can Regen, and if the fight is done where damage is only applies to HP after its over, then it's the Judge's call whether they'll allow your Regen to apply to the end tally, though I doubt it'll ever be an issue.
Lastly, and this may not be in the rules, but Defences can save you from non-damaging Utilities and Attacks. Regen cannot.
In short, yes; Regen is more effective at damage control than a Defence. But they each have their strengths over the other and just looking at them from a single angle is limiting yourself.
RE: Rules Feedback - Schwi Dola - 11-08-2017
A mild suggestion from that new power.
Have super moves or powerups that require the power to spend Healh for SP to gain a half tier of power. Tier 1.5 move cost 1 sp and 3 hp.
RE: Rules Feedback - Trixie - 11-09-2017
(11-08-2017, 11:41 PM)Desco Wrote: A mild suggestion from that new power.
Have super moves or powerups that require the power to spend Healh for SP to gain a half tier of power. Tier 1.5 move cost 1 sp and 3 hp.
Please no. Once we start adding .5 Tiers of things it just gets complicated. @.@
RE: Rules Feedback - PepsiYuuka - 11-09-2017
Sincerely feel 2000 OM may be a bit much for Spiritual Enlightenment- the fact is that I've just flat out never seen it used, and compared to some other buys it's just bleeding money. For the same price I can buy Advanced Teleportation, Telepathy and a smaller proficiency, Basic Regen, Master Fusion or Enhanced Senses... Things that are useful on a near constant basis, as opposed to access to one verse physically in a couple situations.
Whereas a Dataverse Uplink Station, while it has the restriction of being in one set place, is just 1000- and has the bonus of not being tied to one character. So as many characters as can access the base can use it, and it can be paid for as a group. I understand the ability to use Enlightenment theoretically anywhere (out of combat) makes it valuable, but I don't think it makes it twice as valuable.
Also, why is it classified as an item? I get that it's expensive to keep increasing your powers cap, but I really think that's a weird place to put it. I guess to keep it with the Uplink Station, but...
RE: Rules Feedback - Takanomiya Hijiri - 11-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 01:54 AM)Yuuka Kazami Wrote: Also, why is it classified as an item? I get that it's expensive to keep increasing your powers cap, but I really think that's a weird place to put it. I guess to keep it with the Uplink Station, but...
I'm not sure how exactly you guys work out your OM costs for stuff, so I'm not going to comment on that, but I've got to say Yuuka has a point about this.
Of all the Powers on the site, this is surely one of the least fitting to have classed as an item.
RE: Rules Feedback - Ebonywood Hellscythe - 11-09-2017
@Hijiri, Yuuka:
When adding it to your roster, it goes under "unlocks", which personally I think is more fitting than powers. Both because of power caps, and the fact it essentially unlocks a new place to go. That said, the "items and artefacts" page does seem a strange place to put it. Then again, I'm not really sure where else it would go.
But, I would agree that 2k OM is a lot for it. Since there's not really any incentive besides going to the void, and a really slow teleport of a few metres. At least with the Dataverse you can exit out at other places - not that I'm saying that should be added to spiritual enlightenment.
RE: Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-09-2017
Pff, really slow teleport of a few metres? It's exiting to a dimension that most people don't have access to. Seeya, losers! I'm ASCENDING TO A HIGHER PLANE.
It's also a major luxury. You don't need it. The cheap version is 500, those extra 1500 OM are for rich bastards.
Bear in mind, all power costs look cheap before you hit your power limit. Then EVERYTHING has to be budgeted, and non-powers start looking a lot more enticing.
RE: Rules Feedback - Mark - 11-09-2017
It's also worth noting that if Spiritual Enlightenment/Attunement were a Power, it would allow people to Mimic it. That would allow anyone with Mimic essentially a free key into the realm so long as they're willing to mildly inconvenience themselves by meeting up with another person who has it whenever they wanted access.
EDIT: Also, the Uplink station is cheaper because sharing access to it means you're allowing free access to your unvaulted artefacts at the same time. So whenever you let someone in you're running the risk of them robbing you.
RE: Rules Feedback - Omni - 11-09-2017
The Uplink Station's pretty cheap because, frankly, the Dataverse is supposed to be a far more mundane thing than the Astral Realm. Everyone uses the Dataverse, whereas most people don't even believe in or know about the Astral Realm. Also in any staff story where we need people to go there (like the Emperor's Jubilee, a very old storyline now), we'll provide NPC terminals/stations, so it feels cheap and lame to charge a lot more for folks to do it on their own.