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Faction Levels Suggestion - Sasuke Uchiha - 09-11-2015
So, I was brainstorming last night, trying to find my way around here again and I came up with something I felt worthy enough to share with the community! So here's the idea:
Each player made alliance such as New Babylon or L.A.W. would start at level one and through stories produced through the faction would earn the alliance OM, just like an individual. OM would be awarded to an alliance the same way the Bonus Request thread is done. Once you have completed a faction based thread, someone in your party would then submit to the bonus request thread for not only the bonus of multiple player interaction, but also for an alliance OM reward. Staff would then grade the thread, the same way they do for the Bonus Request.
Why, you ask? To unlock cool shit for your alliance of course!
Like what, you ask? How about Alliance quests that offer real rewards?!
(These numbers aren't set in stone, just examples!)
At Level one, a faction would basically be approved to offer 25 om as a quest reward. The alliance could offer as many quests as they want and once completed anyone of those quests could offer up to 25 om reward.
At level two, the faction unlocks higher rewards for the quest the make, lets say 50 om. So and and so fourth for each level they unlock, allowing the alliance to offer higher om rewards for the quests their members complete.
And finally, at some point a level unlock would be a faction quest reward that offers an essence of Omni. Essence of Omni, for those that don't know, is basically you creating your own artifact. In this case the factions leaders would create the artifact and their members would quest to obtain it for the alliance. I would put this as a really high faction level to unlock.
The alliance OM or xp rewarded for each thread the alliance completes would be up to staff, but I would say a formula that matches up with the individual character progression, only multiplying the number to take into account that multiple people work towards obtaining these levels, would probably be best. Maybe the same as the individual progression levels, only times 5? (Average number of members for a faction?)
And lastly, with Factions having their own OM count, this could open the door for items that are only purchasable through a faction. Faction only items you spend your alliance OM for.
I think that is the jist of this idea, I like it and would love to see it implemented. Please, discuss!
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Victor Wolfe - 09-11-2015
this is a very interesting idea that could add some more spice to the factions we have here.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Omni - 09-11-2015
That's a very cool concept. Not a lot to add at this stage, just wanted to say that I've read it.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-11-2015
I've also had this idea! Execution has been... tricky in my head though.
Ok, I've been kinda swimming on this subject for a while now. I'm just deleting huge swaths of text and starting over.
One major question I have is: Are the FACTIONS gaining levels or are the MEMBERS of that Faction gaining levels WITHIN the Faction?
I feel like having different Factions having different sizes and amounts of influence is sort of what makes this idea compelling to me. That would be done by like, I guess the members of the Factions writing a lot? Having "universal" quests that whole Factions try to do seems like it would be hard to write and even harder to grade. Like, maybe the previously mentioned "Faction Leveling Quests" could just be huge endeavors, like, 100k combined words to upgrade your Faction to the next level? Again that seems super hard to grade, but anything smaller seems like it wouldn't be enough. Do people spend OM to level up their faction? OM is essentially "this is how much I've written," so I can kinda see how that would be ok, but it also feels like buying your way through the Faction levels instead of doing FACTION SPECIFIC tasks to level it up. I guess Factions could be leveled on how many words are written for Faction specific quests, by all members of the faction? How many Quests (with word counts) completed?
Having levels within a Faction is also cool, but I dunno how much you'd have to do to "level up" within a Faction? Like, are you just grinding out repeatable quests til you gain enough Faction OM to get to the next level? Cause that sounds like rep grinding in WoW and that's a pretty universally awful experience. I pretty much feel like most Quests, Faction Quests or not, should generally only need to be completed ONCE. That means you've gotta write like, a ton of Faction Quests, and I don't see a lot of Factions doing that. Having one BIG quest per faction level would be cool though. Like, slowly moving up in difficulty (10k, 20k, 30k, etc)as you level up?
You could combine the two concepts, where the level of the members is representative of the influence of the Faction, so that you have all these quests and the final one, as you suggested, would be one where you could make a Faction Artefact. That way you just have influence as a function of how many people you have at whatever faction levels. I'm not sold on that though.
I'm not sold on anything I've said so far, actually.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Sasuke Uchiha - 09-11-2015
So, I think I can answer most of your questions. The idea here came about when Gilgamesh and myself were creating Faction Quests and wanted to offer OM rewards for the quests. Gilgamesh was talking about offering his own OM as a reward, to which I thought (Ouch, thats rough and what a guy for doing that for his members) But why should Gilgamesh have to suffer just because he wants to build a cool thing that has a large impact on a verse?
Instead of having faction leaders fork over their own hard earned OM for their Quest rewards we could allow the factions a spending limit. The limit of OM allowed as a reward for faction quests would be determined on how much impact your faction has in character (How much the faction has participated in faction threads) An example of a thread that would earn Faction OM (Or xp) would be L.A.W.s Settling Scores thread with Strazio.
Edit: Someone from settling scores would post in the bonus request topic for both the bonus and for faction OM to level up their rewards they can offer for quests and unlock an essence of omni quest.
Faction Quests that offer rewards could be submitted to the bonus request for the participation bonus, but not for faction xp.
Second edit: Faction Levels up, not the members, although they do through having been apart of the thread anyway.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-11-2015
Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:So, I think I can answer most of your questions. The idea here came about when Gilgamesh and myself were creating Faction Quests and wanted to offer OM rewards for the quests. Gilgamesh was talking about offering his own OM as a reward, to which I thought (Ouch, thats rough and what a guy for doing that for his members) But why should Gilgamesh have to suffer just because he wants to build a cool thing that has a large impact on a verse?Right but HOW do Factions level up? HOW do we determine what constitutes a "faction quest"? How does offering an extra OM reward differ in any way from going to the bonus request topic?
Instead of having faction leaders fork over their own hard earned OM for their Quest rewards we could allow the factions a spending limit. The limit of OM allowed as a reward for faction quests would be determined on how much impact your faction has in character (How much the faction has participated in faction threads) An example of a thread that would earn Faction OM (Or xp) would be L.A.W.s Settling Scores thread with Strazio.
Edit: Someone from settling scores would post in the bonus request topic for both the bonus and for faction OM to level up their rewards they can offer for quests and unlock an essence of omni quest.
Faction Quests that offer rewards could be submitted to the bonus request for the participation bonus, but not for faction xp.
Second edit: Faction Levels up, not the members, although they do through having been apart of the thread anyway.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Sasuke Uchiha - 09-11-2015
Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:Each player made alliance such as New Babylon or L.A.W. would start at level one and through stories produced through the faction would earn the alliance OM, just like an individual. OM would be awarded to an alliance the same way the Bonus Request thread is done. Once you have completed a faction based thread, someone in your party would then submit to the bonus request thread for not only the bonus of multiple player interaction, but also for an alliance OM reward. Staff would then grade the thread, the same way they do for the Bonus Request.
Factions level up by faction members writing together. Once a faction levels up, they may offer higher om rewards for their own faction quests they create.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Reece - 09-11-2015
This is such an awesome idea.
Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:So, I think I can answer most of your questions. The idea here came about when Gilgamesh and myself were creating Faction Quests and wanted to offer OM rewards for the quests. Gilgamesh was talking about offering his own OM as a reward, to which I thought (Ouch, thats rough and what a guy for doing that for his members) But why should Gilgamesh have to suffer just because he wants to build a cool thing that has a large impact on a verse?Yeah. Nealaphh was wanting to do something similar for his Institute... that said, with the rules the way they are right now, giving away your own OM might not even be allowed. The Rules do say that you can't do that, after all.
You might be able to get an exception made, I guess, but so far as I know no one has yet.
Thaal Sinestro Wrote:I pretty much feel like most Quests, Faction Quests or not, should generally only need to be completed ONCE. That means you've gotta write like, a ton of Faction Quests, and I don't see a lot of Factions doing that. Having one BIG quest per faction level would be cool though. Like, slowly moving up in difficulty (10k, 20k, 30k, etc)as you level up?Personally, I'd say either (or both) of these could work. You say that you don't see many factions being willing to write a whole bunch of quests... and that may be the case, but do they really deserve to level up (and thus be better than other factions) if their leader can't even be bothered to write a couple paragraphs?
That said, I don't actually think it would be an issue myself; Guu already has a whole bunch of faction quests, and both Gil and Neal have mentioned wanting to even go so far as to give their own OM as a reward for any faction quests they make... so I think it's pretty clear that most (if not all) leaders do actually care about their factions.
Honestly, the one who seems like he'd be hit hardest by this approach would be Omni, since he has so much else to do in addition to managing MESH.
I also like the idea of giving each faction a large quest as well, though; something which would contribute more FXP than the smaller ones, since something like that seems like it would be an amount of writing which could legitimately change the Omniverse in some way. The large faction quests could be like major stepping stones towards the faction's end goal; e.g. L.A.W. wanting to rule everything, the Institute wanting to bring about peace, etc., and each part completed could bring the group one step closer to realising their goal... though, of course, their actual progress towards that goal could also be altered by other players from outside the faction (I doubt New Babylon would just stand by if the L.A.W. tried to take over the dunes, for example... the Empire might even get involved, if the fighting came near enough to Carrefore).
Also, large faction quests could potentially be made up of multiple threads, so long as they all came together at the end, and made up one large story... something like Nealaphh's quest to banish Volvagia seems like it would make a pretty great large quest, for example (though that one'll most likely have already been completed before this idea is implemented, if it ever is).
What do you think?
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Omni - 09-13-2015
Going to move this to Omniverse discussion.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-13-2015
Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:Sorry I missed that, I was HELLA out of it that day. I had to erase and retype my reply like 10 times lolSasuke Uchiha Wrote:Each player made alliance such as New Babylon or L.A.W. would start at level one and through stories produced through the faction would earn the alliance OM, just like an individual. OM would be awarded to an alliance the same way the Bonus Request thread is done. Once you have completed a faction based thread, someone in your party would then submit to the bonus request thread for not only the bonus of multiple player interaction, but also for an alliance OM reward. Staff would then grade the thread, the same way they do for the Bonus Request.
Factions level up by faction members writing together. Once a faction levels up, they may offer higher om rewards for their own faction quests they create.
So ANY time the Faction writes together they get like, Faction Experience (or whatever we're calling it)? Would it matter if some people wrote a lot more than others in those threads (like, one guy writes 10k words and another write 400, is that still "writing together"?)
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Sasuke Uchiha - 09-13-2015
Thaal Sinestro Wrote:Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:Sorry I missed that, I was HELLA out of it that day. I had to erase and retype my reply like 10 times lolSasuke Uchiha Wrote:Each player made alliance such as New Babylon or L.A.W. would start at level one and through stories produced through the faction would earn the alliance OM, just like an individual. OM would be awarded to an alliance the same way the Bonus Request thread is done. Once you have completed a faction based thread, someone in your party would then submit to the bonus request thread for not only the bonus of multiple player interaction, but also for an alliance OM reward. Staff would then grade the thread, the same way they do for the Bonus Request.
Factions level up by faction members writing together. Once a faction levels up, they may offer higher om rewards for their own faction quests they create.
So ANY time the Faction writes together they get like, Faction Experience (or whatever we're calling it)? Would it matter if some people wrote a lot more than others in those threads (like, one guy writes 10k words and another write 400, is that still "writing together"?)
You raise a good point and to keep the system from being abused, staff could set earning caps. If one guy puts out alot more than the others, lets say 10k words, we could make it so only 2k worth would earn them faction exp? In a group of 5, no matter how many words each puts into it, only 10k worth of words could earn faction experience, after that they would need to submit a new thread to earn more faction exp?
Having said that, I dunno if this is a good suggestion or if we will ever even have a situation where one person is heavily putting more words than the rest of his faction members. It might not ever even be a concern or need balancing for. Either way, lets keep discussing! I would love to see this implemented!
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-14-2015
We also have to consider HOW MANY writers are in a thread. Writing with 5 members in a thread is a hell of a lot harder than writing as two members in a thread, and it more widely represents the faction as a whole. We should incentivize more people writing together, but not to the point where people feel like they NEED to have more than two or three writers in the same thread.
I feel like one way to approach it would be to use the number of writers and the minimum they've written as a cap for the Faction EXP you get? Like, you had 5 writers in this thread, and they all wrote at least 1k words (regardless of what the total thread word count is), so you get 5k FXP, whereas you have a group of 5 writers in a thread, and they all wrote at least 2k words, so you get 10FXP?
So the function would be (# of writers) x (minimum word count that each writer wrote)?
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Minato Namikaze - 09-14-2015
You wouldn't use an entirely new formula to determine how much OM a system like this would use, It would be exactly the same as it is now. But in this situation you're getting more Om anyway. Because if each person writes 1k words, then that's at least 500 OM for the faction anyway.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-14-2015
Minato Namikaze Wrote:You wouldn't use an entirely new formula to determine how much OM a system like this would use, It would be exactly the same as it is now. But in this situation you're getting more Om anyway. Because if each person writes 1k words, then that's at least 500 OM for the faction anyway.Right, no, I'm not suggesting the amount of OM would change, everything I said was in reference to Faction EXP which is something that Factions would use to level up.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-14-2015
Like, you'd get your normal Bonus OM from the Bonus Request, as he mentioned, but the way that Faction EXP would be calculated would need to be a new formula, as I outlined.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Sasuke Uchiha - 09-14-2015
I just want to note that this suggestion is not about giving out additional OM, it's about setting up a progression system for faction based threads. Like building up a company, you work for the company and in turn, because of everyone's efforts, the company can offer benefits.
You already get paid. (Get OM for writing)
As for one person writing a lot more than the rest of the group, I just realized we don't need to set caps, because the threads are being graded, not auto word counted. So basically the staff grader would be like, "Oo0o0o, nice thread. Fifty points for Gryffindor!"
Or New Babylon or whoever lol.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Thaal Sinestro - 09-15-2015
Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:I just want to note that this suggestion is not about giving out additional OM, it's about setting up a progression system for faction based threads. Like building up a company, you work for the company and in turn, because of everyone's efforts, the company can offer benefits.I sort of just figured that having a more word # based system of earning FacXP would make it easier for both staffers and the groups to keep track of, as the staff already has a sort of tough time keeping up with quests and etc. It also gives the players a more reliable way of knowing how much they'll get. Take a look at the Bonus Request topic if you're unconvinced about how those things can stack up, haha. If a PC can go "We have X many players, and the minimum post length was Y, this is how many FXP we get," then they can even track it themselves, like we do with our purchases and etc. The only time the staffers would need to get involved would be to audit now and then (or if something seemed fishy).
You already get paid. (Get OM for writing)
As for one person writing a lot more than the rest of the group, I just realized we don't need to set caps, because the threads are being graded, not auto word counted. So basically the staff grader would be like, "Oo0o0o, nice thread. Fifty points for Gryffindor!"
Or New Babylon or whoever lol.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Trixie - 09-15-2015
I think instead of Factions earning levels they should be allowed to vie for control of certain zones within Omniverse itself. Whether or not a benefit should be applied for controlling said zone is up to you, but it would boost immersion quite a bit (especially with the environment Greg has setup) if the tavern or bar you enter has people complaining about how Gilgamesh taxes them too much or how Ganondorf is a tyrant who kills children.
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Sasuke Uchiha - 09-15-2015
Trixie Wrote:I think instead of Factions earning levels they should be allowed to vie for control of certain zones within Omniverse itself. Whether or not a benefit should be applied for controlling said zone is up to you, but it would boost immersion quite a bit (especially with the environment Greg has setup) if the tavern or bar you enter has people complaining about how Gilgamesh taxes them too much or how Ganondorf is a tyrant who kills children.
I think you can already do this as a faction, you just need a ton of recognition from a ton of IC threads with your faction. In fact, having faction levels could determine if you have put enough effort into your faction to be able to take on a verse, like, "Can't rule over a verse until faction level 3"
But most importantly, let's not forget what faction levels are really all about, "The opportunity to grow your faction so that you can give back to your members, ie: OM rewards for faction quests and an extremely hard but super awesome essence of omni artifact quest for each faction.
Also, just to be clear, Gilgamesh and I do not tax our citizens. xD
Re: Faction Levels Suggestion - Trixie - 09-15-2015
Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:Trixie Wrote:I think instead of Factions earning levels they should be allowed to vie for control of certain zones within Omniverse itself. Whether or not a benefit should be applied for controlling said zone is up to you, but it would boost immersion quite a bit (especially with the environment Greg has setup) if the tavern or bar you enter has people complaining about how Gilgamesh taxes them too much or how Ganondorf is a tyrant who kills children.
I think you can already do this as a faction, you just need a ton of recognition from a ton of IC threads with your faction. In fact, having faction levels could determine if you have put enough effort into your faction to be able to take on a verse, like, "Can't rule over a verse until faction level 3"
But most importantly, let's not forget what faction levels are really all about, "The opportunity to grow your faction so that you can give back to your members, ie: OM rewards for faction quests and an extremely hard but super awesome essence of omni artifact quest for each faction.
Also, just to be clear, Gilgamesh and I do not tax our citizens. xD
I have verified and irrefutable forged proof that you guys tax people into the ground. I don't think Faction's should be required to generate OM or bank up OM to create their own quests. If Gilgamesh wants you to drive through the village and take peoples money I think it should just be graded and awarded normally by staff. This also provides a checks and balance system too. That way a Faction can't squeeze through the rules. You have staff actively looking at what the Factions are doing IC and lore wise.