Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:

Arthuria Pendragon Wrote:

The Issue

It has been said multiple times that the only way out is through Diablo himself by becoming his lackey. In addition to that, the quest line itself requires a 20 - 40k word amount of work.

Quoting Proto Mouse on that, (Or sources for these statements)
here
and
here.
For the lazy, there are quotes inside the spoiler.
[spoiler]

Proto Mouse Wrote:I hate to be the bad guy, but unless an additional quest is released or the current quest description is changed/expanded, Diablo is the only way out.

You are free to do whatever else you'd like to in the Underverse, but the only individual with a way out of the Underverse is Diablo.

Proto Mouse Wrote:@Nealaphh - No. All Tyrael can do is act as a guide for primes. He'll ultimately tell the prime that only Diablo has the route out. Please note it says 'He can point you in the right direction.' That direction? Diablo.

@Pendragon - You have to become his lackey. This is the Prime Evil we're talking about. He's not going to just let you out because you got bloody.

There's a reason why the Underverse is the worst, most god-awful place in the Omniverse.

[/spoiler]

But we must ask. Is this really how it should be?
While we completely understand, that much like Proto said, there's a reason why the Underverse is the worst, most god-awful place in the whole Omniverse, we feel that the Banishment stops being a “punishment” for the character (an interesting and challenging storyline to have) and becomes a punishment to the player instead.

The 20-40k word requirement is a big obstacle to pass. It takes a comparatively long time to scrap together, especially if you’re adamant on writing an enjoyable story out of it. This however isn’t the issue in our opinion. In our opinion, the issue is the choice you’re forced to make.
If your only option to escape the Underverse is to make a decision that you know your character wouldn’t make (For example, joining Diablo) you will have no motivation to write the quest out to begin with.

This would mean the player has to choose between:
1. Accepting their fate and leaving the character in Underverse forever.
2. OOC:ly deciding to have the character make a decision that they would never make, just to get them out. (Becoming Diablo’s subordinate)
3. Trying to lie to Diablo, and if the character escapes and gets banished again (which they likely would, as mentioned in the reasoning above), stay in the Underverse forever, as Diablo wouldn’t likely let them out due to lying already the last time.
4. Resetting the character.

I am only going to touch on the parts I have in bold. Diablo has the only exit and aiding his cause IS the only way out, however, no one said your character had to WILLINGLY do this. I agree in that we shouldn't force your character to act in a way they wouldn't, but nothing is stopping you from having your Character FORCED into service. It's hell, you could have your character chained and prodded the whole time.

You character doesn't have to DECIDE to enter the arena. You can literally have them thrown in; forced to partake. (Kicking and screaming about it the whole time) It's hell, you're probably going to be forced to do things you don't like. That doesn't mean you character has to CHOSE to do them. Have them forced and given no other option.

Remember folks: Its not what you say, but how you say it!

Sasuke Uchiha Wrote:I am only going to touch on the parts I have in bold. Diablo has the only exit and aiding his cause IS the only way out, however, no one said your character had to WILLINGLY do this. I agree in that we shouldn't force your character to act in a way they wouldn't, but nothing is stopping you from having your Character FORCED into service. It's hell, you could have your character chained and prodded the whole time.

You character doesn't have to DECIDE to enter the arena. You can literally have them thrown in; forced to partake. (Kicking and screaming about it the whole time) It's hell, you're probably going to be forced to do things you don't like. That doesn't mean you character has to CHOSE to do them. Have them forced and given no other option.

Remember folks: Its not what you say, but how you say it!

Guu Wrote:But that's still good enough to permanently ruined a good-alligned character. You can't say you stand for all that's good and justice if you've allied with the devil, even accidentally. Not to mention you could be disowned from every major faction over it, especially if it's common knowledge you've been banished. For example, I'm not sure how I could justify Guu continuing being a faction leader since her very presence at the top will make it difficult to get allies. I'd be forced to chose between working 10x as hard to win over everyone or just have my character stand down. The quest as it is written could potentially ruin anyone's planned storylines.

Generally, I would have no problem with this considering it's hell, but keep in mind that people are willing to bust out banishment circles for trivial things like base assaults, bounties no matter the severity of the crime, or simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time (in the case of Vi.) People on the surface treat banishment so lightly while people who are trapped down there are required to treat it like the harshest punishment to ever happen. That is not fair to the player considering how much is sacrificed on a whim.

Tom Marvolo Riddle Wrote:A base assault personally is a very good reason to banish especially if its happened twice before. It sets a precedent that the owners of said base won't stand for people trying to rape and pillage their people and steal their stuff for simple greed and preconceived notions that have no basis in reality. While greed may be eternal, so will good punishment to deter a repeat offense against the same person. Its not the best solution. But as it is now, there is nothing stopping a person from dying and coming back to assault the same base again over and over again trollishly since moving bases is not exactly easy.

But beyond that and artefact head hunter? Yeah its a pretty harsh punishment that's meted out way to easily.

Guu Wrote:

Tom Marvolo Riddle Wrote:A base assault personally is a very good reason to banish especially if its happened twice before. It sets a precedent that the owners of said base won't stand for people trying to rape and pillage their people and steal their stuff for simple greed and preconceived notions that have no basis in reality. While greed may be eternal, so will good punishment to deter a repeat offense against the same person. Its not the best solution. But as it is now, there is nothing stopping a person from dying and coming back to assault the same base again over and over again trollishly since moving bases is not exactly easy.

But beyond that and artefact head hunter? Yeah its a pretty harsh punishment that's meted out way to easily.

Well, I sort of can see that, though in the NB base assault, even the people committing the assault are preparing to banish if they win.

Edit: Unless if they changed stance on that and I missed it.

Proto Mouse Wrote:(Here) Nothing in the quest description says that.

Nothing.

And it's genuinely frustrating at this point. Maybe it's not the Underverse that's stifling? Maybe it's that people look at vague phrases and try to bludgeon them into literal facts and statements.

This topic is about Guu addressing some of her concerns. I'm not going to sit through another discussion about the Underverse when all of zero people have actually bothered to complete the quest. I'm done.

The Dreamer Wrote:

Proto Mouse Wrote:(Here) Nothing in the quest description says that.

Nothing.

And it's genuinely frustrating at this point. Maybe it's not the Underverse that's stifling? Maybe it's that people look at vague phrases and try to bludgeon them into literal facts and statements.

This topic is about Guu addressing some of her concerns. I'm not going to sit through another discussion about the Underverse when all of zero people have actually bothered to complete the quest. I'm done.

To be fair, no one has said anything otherwise in any capacity. Vague or not.

Quote:If you can prove your worth to the Prime Evil, Diablo, he may see fit to send you to the world above; an agent of his unfathomable schemes.

Guu Wrote:

Quote:If you can prove your worth to the Prime Evil, Diablo, he may see fit to send you to the world above; an agent of his unfathomable schemes.