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+--- Thread: NPC becoming Prime? (/showthread.php?tid=5317)
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NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-11-2016
Hear me out beforeyou immediately tthrow the basic rules at me. My intention is to turn a Raven Familiar into a full Prime through ststory. I wold like this to count as a secondary character that is bound to the first.
For those familiar with d&d 3.5, what I'm wanting to do is have Claw the Raven eventually become a Prime through several drastic changes. It will gain sentience and physical abilities all its own.
Now in game sense, I know this means I could not have them participate in things like competitions or fights... or could I? If they both had Fuse and Roarin had Claw listed as an Assist, could they be allowed to work together in these situations?
I could just leave him as an NPC assist, but I'm not sure how to combine their abilities unless it qualifies as a powered up or transformation firm?
My ultimate goal, mechanic wise, is to have Claw add his Stats to Roarin for a limited duration, but be an individual entity the rest of the time. I'd like him to have some ability to act individually, but very limited (IE only 5 ststory points.)
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-11-2016
You can't really 'become' a Prime though regular adventuring. A Prime by definition is someone summoned by Omni personally, versus summoned by another Prime (creating a Secondary). We've had instances in the past of Secondaries meeting Omni personally and requesting to be 'brought back as a Prime' as part of a Site storyline, though. This essentially meant killing off the current form that was summoned by a Prime and bringing in a version summoned by Omni. If you wanted to endeavor to reach Omni and request that, it's a possibility though I won't guarantee it. That said, you can totally have it remain a secondary and get stronger and smarter and gain sentience and such. There are many secondaries that are several times stronger than fresh Primes. Primes aren't automatically stronger/smarter/better than all secondaries.
If you had Claw as an assist you could have him help you in combat, having stats based on Assist tiers. He would be able to use any moves you have and fly (if you bought Flight; everything they have is taken from your purchases) around and attack independently of your will. I'm fairly certain that you could also Fuse with the assist, though it's a pretty expensive way SP-wise to gain an advantage. Fusing with an Assist would run you 2 SP per post for what basically amounts to a Tier-1 Power Up, which costs 1 SP per post normally.
I'm not totally sure what you're saying with 'NPC Assist' as they're all NPCs by definition. But yes, you could have a Powered-Up form that is a fusion with an NPC. We have one or two people who have done/wanted to do that.
It sounds like ultimately what you'd want would be to have Claw be a Tier I Assist (granting him 5 Stat Points and allowing sentience/individual will) and then have a 'Fused with Claw' power-up.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-11-2016
I missed the bit about power ups. Sooo let me give this a shot:
Raven becomes a Secondary that normally does not aid in combat. However, I can get an Assist if I want Claw to fight on his own, and/or a Power Up if I want them to "fuse." OR can I use Assist and Fuse to simulate Power Up? Their bodies would not "meld" Roarin would wield Claw like a weapon.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-11-2016
Yup, either of those would be fine. Though the second option is more expensive, if you'd prefer it that's up to you.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-11-2016
Would Fusion work with a Secondary, or do I have to use it as an Assist AND Fusion (2sp per post) for it to work like that? And when you mentioned a "Fused with Claw" power up, wouldn't that require Fuse anyway?
What I'm seeing here is a dilemma of cost:
Option 1: 3000 OM (Power Up using Fusion)
SP: 1/post
T1 Assist: 1000
T1 Power Up: 1000
Basic Fusion: 1000
Option 2: 2000 OM (Fusion during Assist)
SP: 2/post
Assist: 1000
Basic Fusion: 1000
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-11-2016
You can have a 'Fused with Claw' Power-Up without Fusion. The Fusion power is more for fusing with other players. If you're going to fuse with a secondary you can just have it be RP fodder for your Power-Up. Just bear in mind that you'll have to pay for anything extra you'd want from the fusion if it's more than cosmetic. So if the raven becomes a battleaxe, you'd need to buy the ax in addition to the Power-Up. It might not make sense but our system lets you use anything you buy in whatever form you'd like.
Also if you plan on summoning other animals and fusing with them for different stat spreads you'll need to buy a Power-Up for each plus any other special weapons or moves you'd have.
And yeah that price difference you mentioned is what I was getting at in my last reply. You'll spend 1 SP per post every time you want Claw to help you and when you 'Fuse' (actually just fancy explanation for a Power-Up) you'll spend 1 SP per post as well. You could pay 2 SP total per post to have him fly as an assist AND boost your stats or just let it be 1 SP to do one or the other.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Trixie - 10-11-2016
I thought NPC's were Primes?
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-11-2016
NPCs can be either Prime or Secondary. I was assuming he was meaning Secondary in this context.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Trixie - 10-11-2016
(10-11-2016, 10:43 PM)Mark Wrote: NPCs can be either Prime or Secondary. I was assuming he was meaning Secondary in this context.
Right.
I was always under the assumption that NPC and Secondary were not interchangeable. NPC's were the two prime level ones you could make and Secondaries were just that; secondary citizens in the Omniverse that have no ability over OM.
Technically they're all NPC's as an umbrella term, yes - Non Player Character.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-11-2016
I'd always seen 'NPC Prime' used to differentiate the two, but yeah. Everything you said is correct.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Amaterasu - 10-12-2016
The thread is probably "closed" by now but I just want to point out that Thaal did something of that sort with BWNN, if I am not mistaken? She started out as a secondary, was killed by Thaal and returned as a Prime without ever having met Omni in person. Granted though, that is just something that happened, not something that BWNN turned into through story. But I think it's worthy of a mention.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-12-2016
Yeah, though that still goes through the 'exit and re-enter' route rather than just suddenly becoming a Prime through walking around. Killing them yourself and bringing them back as a Prime would be a lot faster/easier than the alternative though, so it has its merits. =P
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-12-2016
I think I've got another option. Items "becoming" Secondaries through the Item Familiar feat, specifically when the item gains Sentience. Then use Power-Ups as Stat Boosting "Infusions" of sorts. Going more of an Artificer route with artificial Secondaries than a Druid route with Animal Companions.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-12-2016
Sorry, one more question, how many Power Up forms can we have total, and how many can be active at one time?
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Daniel - 10-12-2016
You can have as many as you want (if you really want to spend that much OM), but can only have one active at a time.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-12-2016
And suddenly this new idea is trashed again... What if I unlock Tier 2 Power Ups, can I instead have two Tier 1's active at a time? It's effectively the same, and I can understand not being able to have two Tier 1's active before unlocking Tier 2.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-12-2016
http://omniverse-rpg.com/assistsandtransformations.php#Transformations Wrote:Rules note: Regardless of tier or type, you may only use one Transformation at a time. The sole exception to this is Alternate Forms, which count as a new Base Form and can be combined with Power-Ups.
It's not noted that reaching another tier allows you to bypass the above rule, so nope. If you wanted to make your Tier 2 something like "He uses two items rather than just one", you can play it off that way. You just can't buy two separate power-ups and use them together.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-12-2016
Sorry for double-posting again, I can't see my old replies before they are approved. I have a few more questions to try and salvage this project.
I can only find the basic rules, I don't see the more nitpicky details I need... I don't even see the rule against multiple power-ups, so I'm pretty sure there's something more defined somewhere... I'm working on very vague outlines here. XD
Second question: Can a Tier 1 Power up be upgraded to a Tier 2 power up when they are unlocked?
Can multiple Assists be active at the same time?
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Mark - 10-12-2016
Yeah, sorry. Your posts are sent to the approval queue until your character is approved.
The first (the one I answered above and you're alluding to now) and third questions are answered in the Assists and Transformations part of the rules.
For the second question, yes. You'd just pay the difference and replace the Tier-1 with the Tier-2.
RE: NPC becoming Prime? - Roarin Keenblade - 10-12-2016
Alright, reread Assist, that might be the way I have to go... Do I have to have a purchase a Tier 3 Assist consisting of the Tier 2's and 1's, or am I just able to activate them after Tier 3 is unlocked?