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+--- Thread: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle Flag" (/showthread.php?tid=1882)
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[Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle Flag" - Retane - 06-28-2015
Warning... racism may be a subject from here on out
[spoiler]It's nationwide I assume, but I figured I would get permission to start this topic... Some of you aren't even in our nation of US... But meh.
South Carolina is a stubborn State as it is on alot of things as it is... We deal with racism daily.White cop shot a black man like a month or so ago. It was an issue here.
A stupid fucking idiot, I can't remember his name, walked into one of the oldest churches in our state (Heard it was more then just the state but meh), and shot up the church. A predominately black church... Killed 9, one of them a representative of our state He was white and has been caught. Was found to have pictures with the "Confederate Battle Flag" in them.
Now they are in debate about taking the Flag down from our state house. The most Stubborn State ever.
There has been Unity and Rebellion from what I heard. People walked on a bridge...Uniting because of those 9. The new 'Black Panthers' from, what I hear, want to split us apart. That was slapped down.
Then there is the main topic. Removing the 'CBF' from SC's state grounds... It was removed from a top of the State Building and moved there... so many years ago. Think it was an NAACP issue?
NAACP and others see the .CBF'it as a representation of racism, and shit. I know the original Confederate flag had the 'CFB' in the upper left corner, and was white. I know what the creator said about it.
I myself, am a glorified Redneck. I have heard the word 'nigger' word used plenty of times. I may have used it a total of 10 times in my life.
My first was when I was under 6. Black man walked in the yard, and I said, "A nigger is here" Wasn't my fault. I got a spanking. Wasn't my fault. Dad or mother taught me the word. I grew up a minority... Seen BOTH sides... Use to bitch at Jamie, an ex, for using the word. I hated it. It was cool for them(THe kids that came over), black and white, because she didn't care for race, though her family had race issues.
I have also been in houses that respect their heritage, Black and White. A few white people I know, have the'CBF' on their wall. Never saw racism in them at all
Hispanic's see the 'CBF' as a Redneck flag...
I am a redneck.
I think about Heritage. I over came Racism, long ago. I don't hate anyone because of their skin color. I look at you and respect you the same way you respect me.
That being said, personally I have never looked at the "CBF" as a symbol of racism... just as heritage.
I've looked at rednecks that show racism... and kept quiet... I know im different...( I'm OK with being an ally with DP... LMAO
) I am a redneck though. I was born and raised here...Personally... I'm unsure how I feel about the flag being removed. I have never seen it as racism. But I also know that, I may be different. But I never related it towards racism...
But what are your thoughts? About it all?
All of it?[/spoiler]
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Proto Man - 06-29-2015
The problem is that the heritage is that of people who enslaved black people, and then were willing to fight a war over retaining their rights to continue to keep said people enslaved.
And just for perspective: Where I grew up, confederate battle flags were a common site on people's trucks and tractors and four wheelers. I thought it was weird then and still do. HOWEVER, I do believe that anyone should have the right to hand a CBF on their property or put a sticker on their car or something (freedom of expression is a personal liberty). I might judge you for it a little bit, but this is America.
I don't think they (confederate flags) belong on any sort of state buildings or state-sponsored institutions/icons and to do so is, in my mind, somewhat deplorable (The state of... Georgia? comes to mind, as I'm pretty sure they have a CBF in their state flag, which just blows my mind).
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Retane - 06-29-2015
From what I am being told, Fort Sumter(It's a part of Patriot's Point, Mt. Pleasant), where I learned about the CBF, has been taken the flag down. They wont sale anything dealing with it anymore in their gift shops.
Now this pisses me off. It is technically a historical museum last I checked. It taught us about the flags. There were at least three pins that were flags that you could buy ... I remember as a kid.
So meh... We are taking our history out of our historical places, because "it's what's best for business" now?
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Thaal Sinestro - 06-29-2015
Let's fly some Nazi flags over WW2 sites and sell Nazi pins for kids to wear. Makes total sense.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Retane - 06-29-2015
Why does everyone compare it to that?
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Thaal Sinestro - 06-29-2015
Retane Wrote:Why does everyone compare it to that?Well, because it's a symbol of racial suppression and racism. It's a symbol of an army that suppressed and dehumanized an entire race of people. Allowing it to fly over buildings is to support the ideals and mentalities of the armies that used that flag, it's how that works haha
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Drogon - 06-29-2015
As a Texas citizen, I believe I can give some small amount of insight into the outrage of some people at the recent taking down of confederate flags.
Obviously, it's offensive and a symbol of racism. We all know that, we all acknowledge it, and the more moderate-thinking of us believe that said flag is still of value as a historical figure. Nobody cares about the confederate flag flying with the other 5 at the state capitol, as it merely represents one of the six unions of which Texas has been a member. It is of equal importance, as a part of that historical relic, to the French and Mexican flags in the same place.
There are surely other examples of similar situations. I'm not entirely familiar with the situation in SC, and as such can't comment on the details. All I know is that the flag itself, as a historical symbol and reminder, is important enough not to destroy entirely.
That said, the flag on its own, or as a highlighted and revered symbol (On t-shirts, in a backyard, etc.) is pretty solidly a symbol of a racist mindset and not only offensive but inflammatory. The taking down of historically relevant confederate flags seems to be an overreaction to its recent uprising as an ideological symbol.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Thaal Sinestro - 06-29-2015
Right, but again, we don't fly Nazi flags either, and that's for a reason, you know?
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Retane - 06-29-2015
Drogon, So owning a Dixie Outfitter shirt, means I am a racist?
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Thaal Sinestro - 06-29-2015
Retane Wrote:Drogon, So owning a Dixie Outfitter shirt, means I am a racist?It means that you are displaying a flag that symbolized the ideologies held by the people who made and flew it. Who were racists who supported slavery. So, at the very least, it means that you're ok visually supporting racist ideologies, even if you aren't a racist yourself.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Trixie - 06-29-2015
Thaal Sinestro Wrote:Retane Wrote:Drogon, So owning a Dixie Outfitter shirt, means I am a racist?It means that you are displaying a flag that symbolized the ideologies held by the people who made and flew it. Who were racists who supported slavery. So, at the very least, it means that you're ok visually supporting racist ideologies, even if you aren't a racist yourself.
That's fine and dandy, but that shouldn't prohibit someone from owning it. Nazi paraphernalia is common among history collectors. Does that make them inherently racist towards Jewish people? No. The Confederate States of America is an integral part of our history and should not be forgotten and censored just because some ignorant stupid people can't stand to talk about it.
It's entirely idiotic.
You learn from history. You don't censor it.
The liberal mind set of "we can't offend anyone" pisses me off. I don't give a shit if you're offended that in the middle of the 19th century we had a Civil War over racism. It's the history of our fucking country. Leave if you don't like it.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Thaal Sinestro - 06-29-2015
Trixie Wrote:It's not suddenly illegal to buy it, it's that retailers are no longer selling it because of social backlash. Like, for example, it's not illegal to sell shit with swastikas on it, but Wal-MArt doesn't carry it because people would flip the fuck outThaal Sinestro Wrote:Retane Wrote:Drogon, So owning a Dixie Outfitter shirt, means I am a racist?It means that you are displaying a flag that symbolized the ideologies held by the people who made and flew it. Who were racists who supported slavery. So, at the very least, it means that you're ok visually supporting racist ideologies, even if you aren't a racist yourself.
That's fine and dandy, but that shouldn't prohibit someone from owning it. Nazi paraphernalia is common among history collectors. Does that make them inherently racist towards Jewish people? No. The Confederate States of America is an integral part of our history and should not be forgotten and censored just because some ignorant stupid people can't stand to talk about it.
It's entirely idiotic.
You learn from history. You don't censor it.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Thaal Sinestro - 06-29-2015
Let me reitterate: it's not illegal to buy, sell or own the confederate flag. It is not censored
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Erza Scarlet - 06-29-2015
Er, what Trixie said. But also just know that wearing or displaying the confederate flag alone certainly has certain connotations for which many people will consciously judge and resent you, regardless of your intent.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Trixie - 06-29-2015
The fear of social backlash needs to fucking stop.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Erza Scarlet - 06-29-2015
"The fear of social backlash" is necessary for society to exist as it does...
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Trixie - 06-29-2015
Erza Scarlet Wrote:"The fear of social backlash" is necessary for society to exist as it does...
One could argue that how society exists currently is toxic and needs to either crash and burn or change drastically.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Erza Scarlet - 06-29-2015
Trixie Wrote:Erza Scarlet Wrote:"The fear of social backlash" is necessary for society to exist as it does...
One could argue that how society exists currently is toxic and needs to either crash and burn or change drastically.
A fair point, and one I won't argue with outright. I will say, though, that said "Crash and burn" or "drastic change" shouldn't be under the banner of a racist ideology any sort of equally toxic ideology.
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Retane - 06-29-2015
Wrong... The white flag with CBF in the corner was the supposed white supremeist flag... Thats what the creator said...
*shakes head*
Let me go to Fort Sumter and remind myself of the history of a flag I have seen alot in my live... Oh wait... a historical place just took it down and stopped selling shit involving it. Guess I can't ptrreserve my heritage for shit.
*shakes head*
Hispanic's consider the CBF, a Redneck flag..
In the end... I dunno... My arguments are for different reasons. At the end of the day.... Montez Sesley, will still be a friend I grew up with. DP will still be a Horsemen...Kev will still be one good friend
I personally, grew out of racism fast, and learned to judge a person for a person.... But I have memories of that FLAG.... It was hanging there... I met good people. They were and are my family. I cant forget my memories.
I'm sorry it pisses you off, but if you want to try me... We can trade stories....
Re: [Mature]South Carolina.... and The "Confederate Battle F - Claraina - 06-30-2015
Retane Wrote:Wrong... The white flag with CBF in the corner was the supposed white supremeist flag... Thats what the creator said...
*shakes head*
Let me go to Fort Sumter and remind myself of the history of a flag I have seen alot in my live... Oh wait... a historical place just took it down and stopped selling shit involving it. Guess I can't ptrreserve my heritage for shit.
*shakes head*
Hispanic's consider the CBF, a Redneck flag..
In the end... I dunno... My arguments are for different reasons. At the end of the day.... Montez Sesley, will still be a friend I grew up with. DP will still be a Horsemen...Kev will still be one good friend
I personally, grew out of racism fast, and learned to judge a person for a person.... But I have memories of that FLAG.... It was hanging there... I met good people. They were and are my family. I cant forget my memories.
I'm sorry it pisses you off, but if you want to try me... We can trade stories....
The people should be the important detail in those memories, not the flag.
While it is true that history should not be destroyed so that we will not forget it the only symbol or flag that is truly necessary to fly is the one that most currently applies, such as if all states began only to fly the American Flag.